1874 a date the Lord chose? (page 7)

freyd

Jesus is the mediator, not of the church for the church has no need of a mediator. Nor is he worshipped by the church, for he is our brother.

good to know that you are an ex-dub. Then you can probably see where I am going with this? One of the first things I did when leaving the WT was to research certain teachings of theirs. I started with their claim that the WT org. is the "faithful servant" appointed by Christ in 1914. The reason being is that this one the one thing that kept me in the org. for so long. I did not want to leave the "only true religion".

During me research I of course found that Christ did not arrive in 1914. Then after meeting some bible students I learned that they also believed that "faithful servant" was appointed but believed it to be Russell and that it happened (correct me if I get the date wrong) 1874?

Anyway, part of the premise of the BS saying that Russell was appointed in this position is based on the assumptions that 1. The date 1874 was the date Christ arrived (invisibly) B) The Lord himself chose this date c) the Lord chose Russell as the FDS as he was the only one who taught this date and the Lords arrival (invisibly)

Lets look at some of these assumptions. First of all RR has already shown that Russell was not the first one to believe in this date. Barbour is the one who "taught" it to him. So then if we go by this assumption that the FDS would know this date had significance, we would have to conclude that Barbour is the FDS.

Also - RR who is a BS expert and elder stated Barbour gave this date and it was used by Adventists too, we can see the Lord did not choose this date. It was simply the teaching of the day. Many Christians believed this date although like BS will admit - no date is given in scripture. Another thing that proves this date wrong is none of the things that were supposed to happen, according to Russell, did happen. So this date was wrong. You know its easy to then "spiritualize" things after they did not happen. But if he was the FDS he should have known the answers and not had to "tweak" his thoughts later on.

Now - if the date 1874 is faulty, then the Lord did not return. IF the Lord did not in fact return, no one has yet been placed in the position of the FDS. I firmly believe this to be true - no one has been appointed as we are still awaiting the Lords return.

There is a good book on this - written by an exjdub called "Captives of a Concept". don't remember the name of the author but know someone here will.

In addition to these points it has been brought out too, the Lord himself said not to believe it when people said he came already in some secret manner. And that we (Christians) were not to know the times and dates in the father's jurisdiction. But when he came "all eyes" shall see him. Not just a few bible students from PA.

Now I know you will not be arrogant enough to state the BS are the only TRUE christians who can understand the bible properly will you?

Thanks for giving your view points though. And really, if you are happy believing this then that is fine. But you cannot expect everyone else to believe it. It's your right to believe what you want to. Lilly

james_woods

Freud, please - you are slipping:

"Jesus is the mediator, not of the church for the church has no need of a mediator."

So the church has no need of Jesus?

Guess not man, - so: he's not heavy, he's just our brother...

(I guess in his name not every knee shall bow)

But, you know - that is the one good thing about Christianity:

You can't take your moves back in the game of Chess, but you can in the game of Life.

( If you know the secret...)

freyd

Appreciate your position. I'm not out to convert anyone. It's God that does the calling. The Church(144,000) have understandings that religions don't. Remember religion is not Truth although it has some truth. Truth was not intended to be an open book. I believe it was that way also in the first century. See Col 1:2. There are two groups that are addressed. One has to understand that in the Divine Plan that there are three phases. Redemption, restitution, and selection of the Bride which must preceed restitution. The Bride is not yet complete. But it's close, and then the four winds will be loosed.

lovelylil

Freyd,

glad to see that quote from Romans 8:28 in the NIV. That is the bible I use also. Now, go to that verse and read the footnote as well as the cross references. You will see that the thought of "predestined" is not applied to individuals who were chosen before time to do God's will but to a group as a whole who will accept Christ. In other words God predestined that some (although they are not named) will be conformed to the likeness of his son. (Bride). That is why Christ is called the "firstborn among many brothers".

james_woods

So, was Nelson Homer B. selected from birth like CTR?

If so, why did these two get into that nasty little bitch-slapping match over the second coming?

That must have been a "great dissapointment" to many of the faithful readers.

freyd

I've said enough. Suffice it to say, Russell was the 7th messenger.

james_woods

And I assume that RR is the 8th, Steam is the 9th, and you must be the 10th....?

lovelylil

James you are too funny.

But seriously Freyd - I had a feeling that maybe the BS have removed Jesus from among them just like the JW's but have to say I am very surprised to find this is true. Here are some thoughts on mediator and I will put it in lingo I know you will understand.

Please look up 1Timothy 2:5 - the thought here is that Christ mediates between God and Men. As you know we are imperfect due to Adamic sin and cannot approach God without being covered for our sins correct? Christ covered us (the church) with his blood and that justified us again in God's eyes, correct? Now we can approach God and before we could not. According to the bible, now in this time period (gospel age) the ransom is applied to the church. Right? those in the body of Christ who partake of his blood during the memorial? .

Jesus has in fact now made these ones in the church his "brothers" and we are no longer alien residents in God's eyes. We are alien residents on earth but not in heaven. How can you then say that Jesus is not your mediator? Are you saying he has not removed your alienation between you and God?

Even the WT says he is the mediator of the 144,000 (a number I do not agree with but don't want to go into now) . What they also say is he is not the mediator of the great crowd until after the kingdom is restored to the earth. But you are saying your church has no need for Jesus as your mediator at all? Then who may I ask justified you and reconciled your relationship to God, was it Russell? Like James said, Russell did not die for you on the cross, Jesus did. Lilly

freyd

Too funny I agree. We have not removed Jesus. You must understand justification. It is by God which applies only to the church who have no need of a mediator. The rest of the believers who are not justified do. Study the Divine Plan. Bibletoday.com

1874 a date the Lord chose?

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