1874 a date the Lord chose?

by lovelylil 97 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  lovelylil

  freyd - you are right. We are getting way off the subject. Please stick to answering the questions already asked. Although we have the answer to the question raised in this post and it is a resounding NO. I know you believe just like the JW's that your little group has all the answers and are the only ones "in the truth" and that is fine by me. We can all choose to believe what we want to.

  I for one though am getting a little tired of you making random statements not supported by any biblical facts or historical facts for that matter and making them on the assumption that everything you said has already been proven correct. So if you don't mind I will stop answering you unless you can go back and anwer any of the many questions that niether you, RR or Steam care to answer. BTW - please send my love to the BS ( I just realized this abbreviation is really funny!) forum. That is if anyone is even on there any more since you all seem to be on this board.

  Did you get to introduce yourself to the forum yet? If not please do so as we always welcome newcomers even if they do have a different "spin" on things. Lilly
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  freyd

  I said I was an x-dub, what else did you want to know? I've answered you scripturally and from the SITS which unlock the understanding of Scripture but that you cannot understand unless you've been called to be in the Kingdom as a co-ruler.
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  lovelylil

  Freyd,

  Which scripture can I not understand, the ones laid out in the bible or the ones Russell laid out in the Studies in the Scriptures?

  What you are basically saying goes beyond that you cannot understand scripture unless you are in the kingdom - meaning body of Christ. I agree that you need Holy Spirit to understand scripture if that is what you are alluding too. However, you and your group are going beyond scripture by saying that not only do we have to understand scripture truths as laid out in the bible - but we have other truths to understand the SIS books too. This is the same thing the WT teaches, you must accept the bible and the truths that are unique to them.

  So are you saying that before Russell wrote the SIS series there was NOT ONE true Christian who understood the bible? How can anyone else have understood it before Russell's books? Don't you see you are putting him in Christ's position? You are saying that Gods word and Christ's teachings are not sufficient for Christians but that an added book series is needed which is SIS. This is also the same thing the Mormons teach. Their book of Mormom is an addition to the bible and will help unlock it.

  Who unlocked God's word prior to Russell. Heck who unlocked it FOR Russell? Don't you believe in Holy Spirit? You keep trying to teach that Christ had to come back in 1874 so that he could unlock the scriptures for Russell and the BS and call them into new understanding but in fact the Lord poured out Holy Spirit on his followers and said "I will be with you always until the conclusion of this age". Christ has always been with the church he did not have to return for them. He will return during the "restitution of all things" for all others to see him. For believers he is already present in us and has been since the beginning of Christianity. The return of Christ is literally to be his 2nd coming and all eyes will see him.

  Do you realize that what you are saying is that the Lord cannot teach us through Holy Spirit and his word but that we needed Russell to add books to unlock the scriptures for us? This would have been considered a heresy in Jesus day.

  Please heed my advice on bible study. You are being led away from truth not to the truth. Do you know I read a lot of Russells books and magazines too. And he said that Holy Spirit would reveal truth to us. He also said if we did not agree with his interpretations, by all means "do not follow me". He also NEVER once said he had all truth or that he was the FDS. Why don't you ask RR for he is an expert on Russell?

  What you are doing is the same as was done in Paul's time. That is why I gave you that scripture reference. You are basically saying "I am a follower of Russell". You are saying you need him and his books to unlock scripture for you vice relying on Holy Spirit and Christ. You are way too attached to him and not to the Lord.

  BTW: Have you read Russell's book "The atonement between God and Man" - In this book he clearly teaches that Jesus is the mediator of all men - including the Church (first). Lilly
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  lovelylil

  BTW Freyd,

  I am not going to allow niether you nor any of your bible students friends and elders to tell me that I am not a true Christian or in the body of Christ just because I accept the bible as a complete work and that I do not feel the need to have any other book to interpret it for me.

  There is absolutely no scripture that supports the writing of the Studies in the Scripture books by Russell to use in our time to "interpret" the bible. And any teaching contrary to this is calling Christ's work incomplete and impotent. For he is the one who upon ascending to heaven - poured the Holy Spirit of God out on all believers and made the promise that he would be with HIS CHURCH all the way from that time - up until his 2nd arrival where he will gather his church to himself and restore all things.

  And niether Jehovah's Witnesses nor any Bible Student groups have the right to say who is/ is not called to become part of Christ's church. If you think otherwise you are just decieving yourself.

  You have in fact been decieved into believing a lie and that by this lie you have the only truth. Now you and your group judge other Christians who refuse to believe the same lie. I feel sorry for you. You had an opportunity upon leaving the WT as did RR to go to Jesus who is the only truth but you did not. And quickly you were snatched up by another group who is more than happy to bring you back into the darkness of worshiping a fellow servant. You may say you do not worship Russell but I have been on your BS forum and you quote from him at least 100 times more often than from Christ himself. Don't you remember that this was the same in the tower?

  I cannot believe how blinded you all are in your loyalty to Russell. Freyd you actually admitted you have Russell so you do not need Jesus as your mediator. Don't you see how far your blindness has taken you away from truth? You have come on here to prove me wrong about the date 1874 - and for no other reason as only RR was a member of this forum and you and Steam have only joined to "get in" on this topic. But you don't realize how foolish and misled you have proven you truly are. It really is a shame for you seem like such a nice person.

  The only thing is - you really need to stop judging who YOU think a real christian is. I hope you don't think I have been too harsh. Most of my friends here know I do not usually preach to others. But when you three, RR, Steam and Freyd come here for no other reason than to try and prove I am not really a Christian and do not have "the truth", you deserve the harshness. If any of you have Christ in you - then you would not be judging all his fellow brothers the way you are. Lilly
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  RR

  james_woods: to our B.S friends - get over it, get a life, seek some help, etc....

  Judging from the likes on thsi forum, it seems YOU are the ones who need to get a life!

  RR
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  RR

  Lovelylil: Gee - you guys must miss me over at the BS forum. Maybe I should rejoin my membership and post over there again? Lilly

  Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm one of the originals on this forum, been here since year one.

  RR
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  RR

  Lovelylil: go to that verse and read the footnote as well as the cross references.

  Hmmm ... aren't those footnotes man's footnotes? Tsk, Tsk!
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  lovelylil

  RR - its interesting that you only respond to the non issues that me or others write about. Yet refuse to repond to any of the wieghtier matters of faith. You have been asked time and again to prove these 45 points Steam spoke about and yet you refuse to answer. As it stands, you and your BS friends have answered the question posed on this thread by admitting Russell got his dates from Barbour and not from the Lord.

  BTW RR since you are an elder you may wish to teach Freyd some biblical passages as he says he does not need Christ for he has Russell. And he has said in this thread that Christ is not the mediator for the church. And I guess that means not he, nor you, nor Steam is then in Christ? Were you baptized into Russell then?

  Never mind don't answer that - and as far as being an original member of this forum that is good for you. This is a great forum to be part of so I don't know why you would say the negative things about it on your BS forum that you have said. But either way that has nothing to do with any of the scriptural points made on this thread nor does anything to show that the Lord chose Russell's date of 1874.

  Your group got into this conversation to try and deflect us away from what is true and have not added any thing of real substance to this discussion at all. Why you keep joining back in to say nonsense is beyond me. Lilly
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  RR

  The problem is Lil, is when we answer you, it's never satisfying. You say we quote Russell more than scripture, then when we quote scripture you say "oh, those are Russell's scriptures." I wasn't aware Russell had scriptures, everything he taught was scripturally backed, was he perfect? No, of course not. Did things always pan out the way he believed they would? No, and he admitted to those mistakes. That doesn't mean the dates were wrong, only what was expected. If you can't see that, then I'm sorry. You'll still be in the Kingdom, receiving restitution blessing!

  As to your inquiry? I've learned that if I stopped to kick at every barking dog, I'd never get anything done. So why don't you cut and paste this and cry on Br. Ric's shoulder, "oh, those mean Bible Students"

  RR
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  lovelylil

  RR,

  First of all - you and your BS friends have not used even one scripture to support your views. Quoting from Russells books is not the same as quoting from the bible.

  Secondly - as I already stated to Freyd, it is not up to you, nor he, nor any of you bible students or Jehovah's Witnesses nor anyone else for that matter to decide what other Christian's positions will be in the kingdom. Only Christ will decide that. Sort of arrogant on your part to try to assign positions don't you think?

  Thirdly - we will have to agree to disagree. If you are happy following Russell's teachings and they work for your life, then that is good for you. I choose to only follow the teachings of Christ and if I am wrong for that, he can judge me as such when he arrives. Have a good night now. Lilly