New "doom and gloom" brochure

by TR 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RedhorseWoman

  When elders "help us", as Waiting mentioned, they are in control. They, and the Society, have the power of life and death over us...literally.

  The odd thing is, while the Society makes very sure that they have the ultimate authority over their members' lives, they shift any responsibility for their decisions back onto the ones governed.

  i.e. The Society strongly urged individual Witnesses to forsake worldly possessions and spend their time in the pioneer ministry just prior to 1975. Those who followed the directive and who gave up everything they had were then castigated by the Society for making unwise decisions in following the Society's directive.

  Parents may exercise authority over their children in many areas, but they are also held responsible for any repercussions that may result from their decisions.
• 

  Frenchy

  Both you ladies make some fine points. I'm curious as to what the 'guys' have to say.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  DriveslikeJehu

  Well what about prayer? Jehovah won't steer you wrong. And when you think about it, the elders have more important things to worry about than oral sex, beards, and the hemlines on skirts.lol
• 

  Frenchy

  Jehu:
  I agree with you completely. But suppose that you pray for Jehovah's Spirit and after doing so you come away with a different understanding than the Society's? What do you do then?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  DriveslikeJehu

  Well really, you should have already had the aid of Jehovah's Spirit. And when you pray, you have to remember to put forth some effort to work in hamony with your prayers. And if it has changed your view on the F&DS, is that new outlook still in harmony with the Scriptures?
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  Jehu, I'm totally confused by your post. When you say

  you should have already had the aid of Jehovah's Spirit

  what exactly are you referring to? This seems to me to be the sort of statement I would have made at one time when I actually meant that the person in question should have already read the literature and known what the answer is. Am I wrong in this understanding?

  Then, too, this is confusing

  And when you pray, you have to remember to put forth some effort to work in hamony with your prayers.

  What type of effort are you referring to? Is it considered sufficient effort to have researched the Bible itself, or are you trying to say that one should use the Society's literature to resolve a question?

  And if it has changed your view on the F&DS, is that new outlook still in harmony with the Scriptures?

  The operative word here is "still". This seems to imply that prior to asking for a better understanding through prayer, one KNEW without a shadow of a doubt that the Society's original view was in harmony with the Scriptures. In my estimation, if one is searching for the truth in a matter, one must put aside all preconceived conceptions and start from ground zero. The understanding received through prayer should definitely be in harmony with the Scriptures, but to ask if it is "still" in harmony with the Scriptures denotes that one was seeking to circumvent a "truth" rather than trying to determine the truth.
• 

  Frenchy

  Jehu:
  Thank you for responding.
  Like Red I’m not sure I understand what you are saying here. You pray for the aid of Jehovah’s spirit BEFORE you begin reading. The reason you pray for it is because you are not automatically assured of having it prior to that or else the prayer would be of no purpose. Why pray for something you already have? Do you see my point here?
  On your second point I am also confused. How can you work in harmony with your prayer when you are praying for understanding Scripture? You cannot act in harmony until you understand, right?
  Your final point or question is also somewhat obscure to me. Is this a rhetorical question and if so what are you implying?

  And if it has changed your view on the F&DS, is that new outlook still in harmony with the Scriptures?

  If you pray for God’s spirit before you read a passage in the Bible and you come away with a view different that what is taught in the publications is that new view out of harmony with Scripture or with the Publications? Which of the two, Scripture or the publications is infallible? Which of the two is a product of the Holy Spirit? Which of the two is inspired of God? Which one does not change? And which of the two has had to correct itself on numerous occasions?

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  larc

  WAITING, These pamphlets go back to the 50's. Exciting the first time when your a kid, but looses it's punch the next time around.

  PATH, If you want to do interesting research, read books before 1940, especialoly regarding Bible prophecy.
• 

  larc

  By the way, the "doom and gloom' pamphlets go back to the '50's; it's exciting the firt time as a kid, but the second time around it looses it's impact as a motivator, e.g., been there done that.

  Instead of going to the elders or the WTBS CD read the books written before 1940 ... very enlightening especially as it relates to Bible prohecy.
• 

  waiting

  Hey larc,[

  Nice to meet you. Thanks for the info. Thankfully the pamphlets go back further than I do. My first 50 copies was in 1977 I believe. I was never impressed with this type of work because you actually didn't try to speak with anyone more than a sentence.

  Hey Jehu,

  And when you think about it, the elders have more important things to worry about than oral sex, beards, and the hemlines on skirts

  You would think that, wouldn't you? But during the times when the "fans are flying high speed" - these things are zeroed in on.

  I don't know your age, but if you are/were married during the "oral sex controversary", your marriage could have been (and some were) terrible hurt. Many husbands/wives were angry with their mates refusal/aggressive to want oral sex - and other things, which went along those lines.

  The elders should have had better things to do than be in bed with husbands/wives, don't you think? But the WTBTS was there too, passing judgement on marriages, disrupting marriages, and then finally, walking away from the damage they did. Many jw's in our area are still confused on this issue, and will not give their own conscience opinion.

  Btw, you completely sidestepped the point of the comment. The point of the comment was that after research, questioning the elders is common. We are taught to go to the elders - even about sex with our mates.

  The elders, as recently as a week ago, are still being counseled to look closely at sister's legs for violations of rules.

  All jw's were encouraged to not to speak to family members disfellowshipped by the WTBTS.

  You brought up the point of beards. A WTBTS rule enforced aggressively in the usa. Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain why a brother cannot give talks or have responsibilities in the congregation if he has a beard, particularily since moustaches are accepted?

  Thanks.

  waiting