I D Cards First Step Down Slippery Slope?

by Englishman 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  conflicted

  E-man, I don't mean to sound insensitive to your position, and I do agree that being required to carry an ID is somewhat bothersome.

  Here is my stand on it though, in the US we are already required to carry ID - if you want to drive or purchase something without cash you have to have an ID. You can't function in the US society without one unless you rely solely upon public transportation and always make sure you have cash on hand for purchases.

  It's not a law, but the principal is already in position. We have to carry ID to live our lives normally - from that standpoint our lives won't change.

  I don't know how it works in the UK, except what I read earlier that you don't need to carry a license to drive. If you try that here they take your car. I prefer to carry my ID - another one won't make a difference, just another piece of plastic in my wallet. If someone wants to see it - I show it. No biggie.

  On the other hand, I don't see how it's going to help - like seeker said, the bad guys will find a way around it.

  My point isn't that it's a good/bad idea, my point is if they do this it's not so much different that what we have in the US now - and I'm not suffering for it.
• 

  JWinSF

  Hi,

  There is talk about a more formalized national ID card in the USA. We already have a quasi national ID card called the Social Security Card. Unfortunately, it's easily forged and/or stolen, has no picture ID. Yet, everything financial in this country is tied to that card. For example, tax returns, bank accounts, loans, credit cards, etc.

  So, for me, a national ID card that would be tighter in it's safety would actually be no problem for me. Hell, they could even have people get a new form of Social Security card with pic IDs, that'd route out a lot of people out there with stolen cards.

  I see this as no different from having to produce a driver's license when entering an establishment to prove ones age, e.g, over the legal drinking age. For me, I'd gladly see this put into effect if it would tighten up security/safety.

  Again, I speak only for myself.

  Toodles,
• 

  Englishman

  Conflicted,

  Of course you must hold a valid licence to drive in the UK, you just don't need to carry it with you, even when driving.

  If you are stopped by the police, you are given 5 days to produce your licence, insurance docs and MOT at the police station of your choice. Obviously, when stopped by the police your vehicle registration number is ruin through a computer to see who is the registered keeper, if the name you give is different then you might be detained.

  I carry no ID of any sort with me, ever. Her ladyship is the keeper of credit cards and cheque books, I just carry cash and my Nokia.

  An ID card would definitely be an intrusion, its the sort of thing most Brits would love to be arrested for not having with them, its just the sheer buggerence of our nature, I guess.

  Englishman

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  conflicted

  I guess you are more sensitive to the issue than I am - you have that right, and I won't fault you for you opinion.

  The question now is "Why won't you carry your card?"

  Is it because you feel you are being oppressed?
  Do you feel it isn't in your best interrest to have one?
  Do you want to make waves?

  I agree that I don't see how it can help, but how does it hurt?
• 

  safe4kids

  Hey Seeker and Eman ,

  This is intriguing to me and I'm curious about your views on the subject. I heard about the possibility of a national ID card in the US this morning on my way to school. The interesting thing to me is that my first thought was how this is another slice of our freedom being taken away!! Seeker, that thought was a direct result of posts you've made discussing the subtle curtailing of our civil liberties, so apparently, my brain is beginning to wake up. What I would really appreciate would be a little more detail from you two as to exactly how you see this affecting our personal freedoms as opposed to the benefits we might reap, i.e. tighter security, etc. I can make some of the leap myself but I really would be interested in reading both of your views on it, if you have the time.

  Thanks,
  Dana
• 

  Trilobite

  Even in the US one is not required to carry a driver's license (or any form of ID) unless one is driving. That seems to me to be the key difference between the various forms of ID that already exist for practical reasons and a national ID card. One could be asked to produce it under any circumstances and for no actual cause. Not carrying it would be an offense. Essentially the vulnerability to search and questioning that one voluntary accepts when one drives would extend to all other circumstances, such as just walking around.

  In essence it allows the police to question anyone and, for that reason should be opposed. I agree with Eman; it is the thin end of the wedge.

  T.
• 

  conflicted

  When I hear 'National ID Card' I am picturing a card - a piece of plastic. It says who I am, That I am a citizen of the US, my age, and a picture of me on it.

  I assume that it would be used to identify myself in the event that I try to board a plane, and the security wants to know that I belong there.(example)

  What I am hearing described here is fear of a police state where officers are storming into our houses and demanding ID before our property is trashed or confiscated.

  I don't think that is the intention of the government when the issue of these cards came up, do you?
• 

  slipnslidemaster

  "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

  - The Papers of Ben Franklin

  Slipnslidemaster: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

  - Ben Franklin
• 

  ofcmad

  Listen. People are already "required" to carry identification of some sort in the US. I know that if I suspect someone of a crime and they have no means of identification, I am allowed to detain them up to 72 hrs to positively identify them thru fingerprint analysis or other means. So, a national identification doesn't make me panic.

  ofcmad

  "Noah was a drunk and look what he accomplished." The Metatron/Dogma
• 

  Trilobite

  conflicted,

  Maybe not storming into one's house. However, ID cards aren't there just as a way to establish ID when called for. After all, that exists already with different IDs being required in different arenas. Instead, the idea is that people can be asked to "show their papers" on demand. Essentially, the ID card is a "license" to be out and about in public. The flaw in the whole thing is that, as has been pointed out, everyone already has to show ID for certain things (boarding planes, driving etc.) If those forms of ID can be forged then why not National ID cards too? So, ID cards wouldn't accomplish much except to allow the authorities to question people as they saw fit. To begin with with it would no doubt be people who looked Middle Eastern who were stopped. After that, who knows? Certainly they would be a good way of keeping tabs on people concerned with civil rights, protesters of various kinds, etc.

  T.