Judicial Committee Preparation

by Marvin Shilmer 157 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Amazing

  Marvin,

  Calling the police and claiming a violation of constitutional rights might work in Canada or the UK, but ti does not in the USA. The separation of Church and State means that the courts and police will not get involved unless a crime was committed. Religion has a long super precedant (Stare-Decisis) that the courts do not interfere in the proceedings of a religion. The exceptions recently have been in cases of child abuse (a crime). Otherwise, there is no point in calling the police or one's attorney in the USA.

  Jim Whitney
• 

  Honesty

  Why put yourself through the ordeal when you can simply tell them, "You are no longer serving as my spiritual advisors."

  Short and sweet.
• 

  drew sagan

  From what I understand local Elders usually allways shy away from an individual who wants his personal rights protected by legal means. Their kangaroo court only works by unfairness. Make it impossible for them to meet your demands for justice.
  
  I agree that Elders would just let it go. Some things are not worth the troubble. What you shouldn't do is make it about some kind of 'Biblical Court' rules. You intentions is to protect yourself against defamation of character and slander. Make that quite clear. I don't think Elders would touch it with a 10ft pole.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Jim W writes:

  “Calling the police and claiming a violation of constitutional rights might work in Canada or the UK, but ti does not in the USA. The separation of Church and State means that the courts and police will not get involved unless a crime was committed. Religion has a long super precedant (Stare-Decisis) that the courts do not interfere in the proceedings of a religion. The exceptions recently have been in cases of child abuse (a crime). Otherwise, there is no point in calling the police or one's attorney in the USA.”

  First, I have recommended threat of calling local law enforcement. Whether or when a person actually makes such a call is another matter.

  Second, no religion or religious policy is above the law. Church and State separation theories and legal arguments do not change this.

  Third, recent court rulings have successfully overturned the Watchtower Society’s long held contention that records of judicial hearings are party to penitential communications. This finding is not married to allegations of criminal conduct.

  An attorney can do a great deal with de facto public repudiation of an individual’s name and character when the repudiation results from acts contrary to internal religious policy and/or contrary to public sensibilities embodied in law. The Watchtower has been successfully sued for character assassination under these circumstances. The recommended questions and record keeping only set the stage to drive the dagger deeper into the Watchtower’s bank account.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  hambeak

  Marvin WAKE UP!! Unless a crime has been committed authorities will do nothing. Adultery, Smoking, Homosexuality, etc these are not against the law of the land. You are obsessing on this I think you want to go back to the borg.
• 

  outoftheorg

  Well it has been a long time since I was an unhappy elder. But at that time, if anyone involved an attorney in their Judicial problems, the elders called WBTS legal desk and were told to drop it.

  However the back stabbing rumors and shunning would start anyway.

  But I must add that it might be interesting seeing the elders scramble and try to deal with this approach and who knows? It might turn into something similar to the Calif. court case recently decided.

  I am all for screwing with their heads and handing the shit they throw at us back to them.

  Outoftheorg
• 

  moshe

  The irony is they don't seem to know they're bad. I didn't know I was bad when I was a Witness.

  Gary, you have a knack for hitting the nail on the head. Every JW that I have talked to did not like having his "bad" side pointed out to them. In their mind they are perfect.

  Going to a Judicial Committee hearing after you learn the WT is a fraud is like going to a Court Martial for the French Foreign Legion- just because they sent you a summons in the mail. The WT is a fraud and has no jurisdiction over you- do not continue feeding the Elder's appetites for dictatorial power!!
• 

  Quandry

  You know, no one could really understand what the men on a judicial committee are capable of unless they have had dealings with them. Men on my straight A grade, never been in trouble teen daughter's committee accused her of fornication for over two hours after telling my elder husband that there was no accusation, no witness, and no confessionof it. They told her they would not believer her. They had determined in advance that this is what she had done. They made her read one condemning scripture after another to try to get her to admit it. They accused her of theft, of being in a gang, of being a lesbian because "little girl's sleepovers are lesbian training centers" and told another family in the congregation that she had committed fornication. They lied to my child, humiliated her, demeaned her, and treated her like @#$%. They made her read a scripture that she was filth in God's eyes, and would burn in the lake of fire with the devil.

  They are not a court nor do they claim to be one. Once the door is closed on the back room, "ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER" is the only rule.

  Do you really think you can get a fair hearing if you ask to appeal the decision? In my daughter's case we asked for an appeal because of the horrendous way she was treated. We went to the Kingdom Hall where the original committee sat and three "impartial" men on the appeal committee. After I began to report the way my child was treated, the chairman said we must close the meeting and meet again. FOR MONTHS WE WAITED AND ASKED FOR THE SECOND MEETING. Excuse after excuse was given. Finally, we were called to a meeting with the appeal committee and told that the WTS had upheld the decision to df my daughter. Do you know the reason why we did not have the second appeal meeting? IT WAS TOO INCONVENIENT TO GET EVERYONE TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!

  Believe me, if I did not have this personal knowledge of what went on, I would not have believed it was possible. If you think civil authority's rules of any sort apply or are meaningful to this organization you are mistaken.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Marvin,

  If you try this let us know how it went. I hope you meet with sucess.
• 

  choosing life

  Garybuss

  I have often wondered how long it is going to be before someone retaliates against the Witnesses in a violent way. You mention walking in a JC with a shotgun. I am not endorsing it, but in a violent world, it is very likely to happen sooner or later. I feel sorry for the stress that they are putting everyone under. This is not a religion. It is a vicious, controlling business.

  I think stalling things and demanding your rights is a good idea. It may not work, but what's the harm in trying?