Nov. 8 Awake - Wife Beaters-Sick

by MrMoe 80 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TheRecordCollector

  to have her! A woman should leave the bum! And the guy that beat's his wife...IS NO MAN AT ALL! He's a pathetic excuss! End of discussion! Period!

  Doug
• 

  Bridgette

  ((((((Essie, Andi, Moe--all my sistas, lurking and posting))))))))
  God, our stories are SOOO much alike!
  Essie, you are so strong. Emotional abuse and spiritual abuse is more enduring.
  And I also found a great, loving man. I thought I'd NEVER get married again, because I just couldn't beleive that there are loving, caring, giving men. We have a great marriage. We're best friends, lovers, confidants, soul mates. Only, after having been bullied by my ex who was 3 years younger than I was, I found someone 10 years older than me this time. We travel, we write together, we talk in bed until all hours of the night----we love each others company. You can't believe what a good marriage is until you're in one. And he's more of a father to my daughter than my ex ever was. He reads to her, plays with her, works on her homework with her.
  LURKERS, I agree--there is LIFE out here. Just look in the mirror, do you recognize the girl you were still living inside those eyes? Full of hope and promise? She's still in there. You don't have to put up with abuse.
  Love,
  Bridgette
• 

  MrMoe

  Closer - I e-mailed you from my work - but I won't get into the office until Monday. No biggie though because I can't mail out the copy of the AWAKE until then. But, feel free to e-mail me at home, too.

  Anybody who wants a b/w copy ofthe article please let me know by Monday - I will mail it out to you free of charge as long as you promise to make copies and distribute as neccessary. Just e-mail me your address.
• 

  Esmeralda

  Moe and all,

  Bill Bowen sent me an excellent scan of the article in its entirety. I'm going to check to see if he's already linked it to his site, if not I'll do my best to put it on the web and put the address here. It's a large file and would be very hard for me to e mail to anyone.

  I'll edit this post to update when I know where the article is online. It's important that as many people as possible read this and understand what JW's fill the minds of women with.

  *hug*
  essie
• 

  Esmeralda

  I went ahead and put it up on the web: link is here:

  : http://awake11801.homestead.com/Awake.html

  love
  essie
• 

  MrMoe

  Thanks so MUCH Essie! Do you still want a copy Billy? I don't mind sending them still.
• 

  MrMoe

  Most important links:

  http://awake11801.homestead.com/awake7.html - this one is the "risk factors"

  http://awake11801.homestead.com/awake11.html - this one is the example of how the troof changed a couple

  http://awake11801.homestead.com/awake12.html - this one is the one basically reccomending to stick with the marriage unless extreme - to NOT coax a woman to leave this situation and that becoming a JW can change all of this (stating JW's provide a POWERFUL influence to change these sorted ways and gaining knowlege about Jehovah will help change his ways.)

  THANKS AGAIN ESSIE!
• 

  siegswife

  In this same issue of Awake, the WTS has taken the opportunity to promote, by mentioning, the UN's Declaration of the Elimination of Violence Against Women. I wonder if the writers of this magazine did this piece just so that they could do their duties as a mouthpiece for the UN. The UN is mentioned on pg. 4 and pg. 6 in this article. Granted, they aren't given as the solution to the problem, but this speaks to the governing body fulfilling its obligation as an NGO associated with the DPI. They are clearly letting the DPI 'direct' the content of some of their articles, even if it is only to the point of mentioning them in relation to the subject matter.
• 

  msil

  Well I have read this thread for a few days now. Then yesterday I received my own copy of the awake and just finished reading it. I know I will be flayed for it but here I go playing devils advocate...

  I will preface my comments by saying that I totally respect the circumstances and pain many here have endured and I hope they have either escaped from or found ways to come to safety and comfort. No person deserves to be mistreated. As far as my own personal views are concerned the punishment should fit the crime - if a coward beats his wife he should be used as a pinata at the next police training school.

  First off, the issue of "should she leave him?".
  My personal and immediate reaction is "of course!!". But the WTBS cannot come up with what you want Mr Moe - a one size fits all. There can be different severity of abuse (of course none is acceptable). It should be the spouses choice to leave or not to leave. If the WTBS had said ALWAYS leave then would you have criticized them for that too? We all espouse "freedom of thought and freedom of choice". If the rule was to be made that she should ALWAYS leave aren't you taking away the freedom of choice?

  Secondly, the Risk Indicators
  As cited much later in this thread the risk indicators were not conceived by the WTBS (although when I first started reading this thread Mr Moe's first post mislead myself and from subsequent posts some others into thinking they were). Only much later did we see that the indicators were published by Richard Gelles. what are his credentials?

  Richard J. Gelles is Director of the Family Violence Research Program, and a professor of Sociology and Psychology at the University of Rhode Island. He has published extensively on the topics of child abuse, wife abuse, and family violence. His most recent books are: Intimate Violence (Touchstone, 1989); Physical Violence in American Families: Risk Factors and Adaptions in 8,145 Families (Transaction Books, 1990); Intimate Violence in Families, (Sage, 1990); and Current Controversies on Family Violence (Sage, 1993).

  So while our instincts and own experiences might lead us to disagree with the indicators we should ascertain what lead Mr Gelles to publish them. Are they based on statistics? I don't know. But the WTBS quoted from someone whose credentials would certainly be acceptable as an expert witness in a law court. If you would cast your eyes to the opposite page of the article you can see the context in which the "risk indicators" is placed. Look at the 2 subheadings: "Cultural Influence" and "No Excuse for Battering". If you read the 2 headings you can see the important sentence "The above factors may help to explain spouse abuse, but they do not excuse it." The next sentence: "Put simply, beating one's mate is a gross sin in God's eyes".

  The next time I see Mr Moe quote she says:
  "OK - take this statement for an example: "Some battered women may need to seek assistance" - SOME? And who defines some?
  Or - take this "At times, a point of crisis-such as intervention of the police..." A point of crisis - and what is thier definition of a point of crisis?"

  Why do you seek explicit definitions? Again you want the one-size-fits-all? Or are you wanting to remove freedom of choice again?

  I do agree with you, Mr Moe, about how pathetic the experience is and how the husband now "allows her to choose what music she listens to". I definitely agree that the WTBS treats women as inferior.
  but if one wants to believe in the Bible (which I don't) then one reads about "husbandly owners". Take a look at such verses as Rom 7:2, 1 Pet 3:1, Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32. If you want to believ in the Bible then you probably need to find away explaining away verses like those. I don't believe in the Bible and have no problem seeing woman as equals (ok I confess I love women more than I love men they are greater than men).

  If you have been watching the news and seeing how the Taliban treat women it is interesting to note how so many cultures mistreat women. Page 6 of the Awake has many examples of how women are mistreated in different cultures. Religion is the largest suppressor of women on the planet.

  Other things I found interesting in the article: the way that they are so lenient on wife-beaters. But then all religion tolerates this crap. I have yet to see one that doesn't. At least the JWs will eventually take action (according to the article - although reality might prove differently) to DF an offender.

  grrr....they just showed the clips on TV again of the Taliban treatment of women. I hate religion!!
• 

  Bridgette

  Dear MSIL,
  Thank you for attempting to lend some balance to this volatile issue. It's true, it's so emotional for many of us, that it's difficult to be balanced. I tried to read it objectively. I think what you were saying, is MOST religion plays some part in the subjugatioin of women, simply by virtue of what the bible teaches regarding women. And I have to agree. However, MSIL, I have to point out that even most Christian religions are WAY ahead of the WTBTS on women's and children's issues. I have some christian friends, and even those of the more conservative sects (i.e., Church of Christ) have women's study groups. Women can lead the church in singing, they can sit in on decision making commitees, they KNOW they can leave an abusive relationship with the FULL support of the congregation etc. Not that that's enough, but it's light years ahead of Jehovah's Witnesses. You should know that just sitting back, and paying lip service to a woman's "rights" (we all know they view women and children as second class citizens) via their Awake mag, is a FAR CRY from what they espouse by their actions.
  Of course it is a woman's choice whether or not to leave an abusive relationship. In fact, until YOU DECIDE, you will not leave successfully. BUT, now here's the glitch--that little catch phrase they repeat ad nauseum regarding a woman's right to choose whether or not to leave---"if you're life is in danger" they continually spout it(and BTW, I do not know if this is new light, or what, but in the old days, it was stay to the death). Now, this is where a woman like myself gets caught in an abusive relationship with her children in tow. While it is your personal decision, when you do NOT have a support network, it is almost impossible to fathom the possibility of leaving. You've watched how women, esp. single moms are treated like burdensome pariahs in the congregations. You don't want your children growing up with that kind of a stigma. And at first, it very seldom starts out as life threatening. It's a slap, a push, a mark, not a bruise. My decision to leave and break up my family was AGONIZING. If I'd had the support of a loving religion who recognized me as a human being and not a potential burden, or second class citizen, I might have been able to leave far sooner, and spared my daughter from abuse. And don't beleive for one minute that the elders are supportive of a woman in this situation. I tried going to them in different congregations, always the same lukewarm response. More like, "*groan* I wish you hadn't told me this. Is your life in mortal danger etc." And for the abuse of my daughter--dismissed--As if it were no more than a harsh spanking. Mentally what this rhetoric does to you is make you question your own sanity, your own convictions. You know that backhanding a child is wrong. You know that having to put on extra makeup to cover a bruise is wrong. But there's no one saying, yes, it's wrong! In fact, you've got pretty much the opposite. And you are in such a weakened state, mentally and emotionally and physically, that you NEED someone to say--it is wrong. You need to leave! We will be there to support you if you do. When I finally left, after like I said, AGONIZING over it, I was through with the man, the cult and the god who'd allowed all of it.
  So, if there does happen to be a god, and they have ruined mine and so many others faith in him? and he really is going to destroy us all? Oceans of blood are blood are on their heads. But that's the chance you take when you claim to be god's only spokesperson on earth. the only place and organization where people can go to for god--you'd better be right--ALL THE TIME. NO EXCUSES. At least, that's what they taught me about Christendom.

  Pax,
  Bridgette