The Christmas Star

by praiseband 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • fish
    fish

    (Matthew 2:1-15) After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
    When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born. "In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
    "'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
    are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
    for out of you will come a ruler
    who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.'"

    Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

    After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

    When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him." So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

    First, notice this is not talking about Jesus' birth. He's called a young child and is now living in a house not in the manger he was born in. He could have been as much as two years old at this time.

    Second, these Magi, or astrologers, were not worshipers of the true God. Nor does the account say how many there were. So they were not '3 wise men' but rather two or more Magi...men who practiced divination, something that God condemns.

    As far as the star goes, do you not think Satan possesses the power to make a bright light appear in the sky that would move ahead of them to lead them? It wasnt a literal star that Jehovah had created. What else would they call a bright light in the sky? So these Magi, if they were sent by God, and it was God's star that guided them, why did they first have to consult with Herod? And what was the result of their going to Herod?

    Verse 16 - "When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi."

    Herod murdered about 20,000 young boys as a result of the information he obtained from the wise men whos star led them to Herod!! Do you think that God cooperated in the death of those children?

    Who used the wise men? God or Satan?

    The answer is too obvious to even ask.

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    One of the best explanations I ever found was this series of mock dialogue:

    Was the star of Bethlehem Satan's Star?

    -ithinkisee

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    Herod murdered about 20,000 young boys as a result of the information he obtained from the wise men whos star led them to Herod!! Do you think that God cooperated in the death of those children?

    Matthew 2:12 and having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

    What information are you talking about??????

    BTW like most rulers of the day Herod was ruthless , murdering his wife his three sons, mother in-law brother in-law , uncle and many others he didn't need any help killing these children.

    Who used the wise men? God or Satan?

    Who said anybody was using them ?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    First, notice this is not talking about Jesus' birth. He's called a young child and is now living in a house not in the manger he was born in.

    ... according to Luke, which Matthew didn't know, otherwise he wouldn't have had Joseph and Mary living in Bethlehem in the first place (they only move to Galilee at the conclusion, and as a result, of the Magi story, v. 22f).

    Second, these Magi, or astrologers, were not worshipers of the true God.

    More importantly, they were Gentiles, and Matthew repeatedly insists that Gentiles got what the Jews missed (which is exactly the point of the Magi story).

    So these Magi, if they were sent by God, and it was God's star that guided them, why did they first have to consult with Herod?

    To have the Jewish Torah and Prophets point to the exact place. Meaning, the Jews should have known (see above).

    Herod murdered about 20,000 young boys as a result of the information he obtained from the wise men whos star led them to Herod!!

    Where do you get this figure? I personally hold the story to be entirely fictional, but Bethlehem, if it existed back then, was a small town.

    Do you think that God cooperated in the death of those children?

    Irrelevant. Even if Satan worked it out, God could have prevented it, couldn't he? Didn't he act to prevent Herod from reacting too soon (v. 12; or did Satan do that too? why?). Plus, didn't he want his "prophecies" fulfilled (v. 15, 17)?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The tradition as reported by Ignatius of Antioch (c. AD 110-117) even has the opposite viewpoint: that Satan was totally unaware of his incarnation ("the Prince of this world was ignorant of the virginity of Mary and her childbearing") which only became revealed through the appearance of the star, a star which "outshone all the other stars, and its light was indescribable, and its novelty provoked wonderment", and it was through this cosmic upheveal that evil power became shaken (Ephesians, 19). This is the earliest reference to this tradition outside of the NT, and later Christian writers also regarded the star in positive terms, fulfilling as it does the "messianic" prophecy (retroactively, at least) in Numbers 24:17.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Btw I can't think of any blanket condemnation of astrology as such in the Bible texts. Because we consider it as "divination," we tend to lump it together with necromancy etc. which areindeed rejected in Deuteronomistic and later tradition. Occasional criticism of astrologers in the Prophets generally belongs to wider charges against human wisdom, confirming that astrology belonged to interpretative yet natural "wisdom" (cf. Daniel among the Magi). In 1st-century synagogues astral symbolism (especially the Zodiac) seems to have been a common motif (e.g. Tiberias).

    The Magi star is just one of the astral echoes in the NT christology.

    It's interesting to follow the use of anatolè, literally "rising," meaning either "the East" or the star rising in the Magi story (2:1f,9).

    4:19: the people who sat in darkness
    have seen a great light,
    and for those who sat in the region and shadow of death
    light has dawned (phôs aneteilen autois).

    8:11 many will come from east (anatolôn) and west and will eat with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the heirs of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east (anatolôn) and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

    Luke 1:78f: By the tender mercy of our God,
    the dawn (anatolè, sun rising or star rising?) from on high will break upon us,
    to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
    to guide our feet into the way of peace.

    2 Peter 1:19: You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star (phôsphoros)rises (anateilei) in your hearts.

    Cf. also Revelation 2:18; 22:16, using another term. The metaphorical network thickens when you realise that anatellô / anatolè are also used in Hebrew-Greek (mis?)translation for the "rising" of a plant, germ, or sprout, cf. Jeremiah 23:5, Zechariah 3:8 etc in the LXX.

  • Mysterious
    Mysterious
    Herod murdered about 20,000 young boys as a result of the information he obtained from the wise men whos star led them to Herod!!

    Where do you get this figure? I personally hold the story to be entirely fictional, but Bethlehem, if it existed back then, was a small town.

    I don't know about that figure in particular but I believe the JW stance was Herod didn't know where they went so he ordered all boys in the region that were 2 years of age and under to be killed not just the ones in Bethlehem itself.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Mysterious,

    Matthew 2:16 indeed says "in Bethlehem and all its territory," which cannot be very large as Bethlehem is not far from Jerusalem and the latter is obviously not included. There is no evidence that Bethlehem played any role or even was inhabited in this period (it is not mentioned in the 2nd-century BC books of Maccabees, for instance). Even the quotation of Micah 5 in Matthew 2:5f pictures it as small.

    But, stepping back to the fictional perspective, it may well be that the narrative intends to portray a large slaughter (cf. the quotation of Jeremiah in 2:17f).

  • praiseband
    praiseband

    Fish --- Thanks for the reply, but, just so you know....I and most Biblical Christians know that Jesus was not an infant at the time the magi visited. Over the years, the Christian church has been making great efforts in Bible studies, etc. to make this quite clear. I don't believe my question ever said or implied any such thing. You have obviously been reading WT info which always makes a point that this is taught in "Christendom" but that would be largely inaccurate. It has been made somewhat confusing, I will admit, when it has been portrayed in nativity scenes because, they haven't always made a point of changing scenery before introducing the magi into the production and want to jump to show all the characters involved in Jesus' baby life. But as I said, this is something that we have been emphasizing in our congregations. Also, I agree about portraying 3 magi vs 2+. We don't know how many there were and this is also something included in our studies. It's just easy to have 3 little kids carry the 3 gifts that were brought. Maybe we should consider some years having 2, and some years having 5 or 6. Next, I asked if anyone could show me where in the Bible it says Satan created a star. God is credited with creating stars - no one else. It is not good logic to just jump to a conclusion that because Herod had evil intentions, that the star which appeared had to have been created by Satan. Herod thought he could use the magi. Obviously he was mistaken. If Satan was powerful enough to create a star, he easily could have directed the magi back to Herod. They had information that they should not return to him. They chose not to. They could have chosen to have gone against the information to return, but they didn't. So, perhaps either they were really worshippers of God and really did come to worship the child, or God was at least powerful enough to send them a message which they chose to obey. If the info came to them while they were sleeping, would you conclude it either came from God, or Satan? Why would Satan, who you have essentially maintained they were followers of, direct them away from returning to Herod? And if they were his(Satan's) followers, and the message was from God, why would they obey God rather than Satan who they were serving? This is why the WT theory has bothered me so much. Other things may need a lot of research to verify the correct theology. Not this one. It's simple and their theory has absolutely no logic. Praise

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    A question for fish:

    How did the wise men know about the King of the Jews?

    Matt 2:1-2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod , wise men from the east arrived unexpectedly in Jerusalem, saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

    Num 24:17 I see him, but not now; I perceive him, but not near.A star will come from Jacob, and a scepter will arise from Israel.

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