by Sunspot 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I know I'm taking the easy way out----but I'm in a debate with a (particularly snotty) JW and I can't FIND the answer in the "litter-ature"...but its gotta be there somewhere.....
It concerns a JW praying for a DFed or a DAed JW.....I ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD that a JW could NOT pray for them.....but this JW says they CAN...and do.
HAS there been "noo lite" on this?
Did *I* misunderstand it all these years?
IS there any printed WTS info about this? I just can't seem to FIND any!
Help?????
TYIA,
Annie
i was always under the impression you weren't supposed to pray for them either.
they were to be considered dead .
they were to be considered dead .
Yup....just what I thought too, Candid----how strange! (NOT!)
NOW...all I have to do is prove this!
It doesn't matter what some man made literture says Jesus said this at Matt 5:43-48 43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ [ r ] and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies! [ s ] Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. 46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends, [ t ] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. 48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
One of the reasons I left is because to me, the WTBTS nor any man made lit will ever supercede what Christ taught,
If they cannot do that much, then I let the scripture speak for itself, who do any one of think we are to look down our noses at another fellow human being? This judging of others is one of the most negative aspects of the JW's, I feel sorry for them and hold no malice to them. I wish they use the Bible more than man made lit, it is was gotten them in so much trouble.
I would say that since your prayers are filtered through the FDS anyways, it doesn't really matter.
That's what I was always taught, that we couldnt pray for DF'd or DA'd. I was told that Jehovah doesnt even hear their prayers let alone answer them.
Sunny, this might be the location of the subject.
You must not pray for disfellowshipped ones. They are dead in God's eyes. (WT1983 1/1 p.31 WT1979 10/15 p.31)
They have since updated this teaching and say that you may pray for somebody who has been DF'ed if you have some insight into the situation. They still remain firm that there should be no public prayer on the matter.
I'm sure somebody will be able to provide the referance soon.
Thanks for the info MsMcduckett...Reading it reminded me of something I mentioned before but I don't know if anyone commented on it.
It concers putting your hand on the Bible in court and swearing to tell the truth..did the JW's at one time say the JW's couldn't do this?
I know there was some controversy in our KH about it for a while..you know how the gossip gets aroung without actually being taught..
Big hugs..Snoozy
Edited to add..a lot of us JW's that were in the "Truth" a while back remember the "Old school teachings". A lot of the newer witnesses aren't told what the JW's USED to teach..so they call us liars...I remember when I first came to the X boards and started to do research..I was shocked..if I hadn't looked the info up in my old literature I wouldn't have believed it.It felt so good to know they were so wrong..
Snoozy..
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w0112/1pp.30-31QuestionsFromReaders***Questions
FromReadersDoes
God’sdirectionrecordedatJeremiah7:16meanthatChristianswouldnotprayaboutsomeonewhohasbeenexpelledfromtheChristiancongregationbecauseheisanunrepentantsinner?After pronouncing his judgment against unfaithful Judah, Jehovah said to Jeremiah: "As for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, neither raise in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer nor beseech me, for I shall not be listening to you."—Jeremiah 7:16.
Why did Jehovah forbid Jeremiah to pray for the Israelites? Clearly, it was because of their flagrant transgressions of his Law. Openly and shamelessly, they were "stealing, murdering and committing adultery and swearing falsely and making sacrificial smoke to Baal and walking after other gods." Consequently, Jehovah told the faithless Jews: "I will throw you out from before my face, just as I threw out all your brothers, the whole offspring of Ephraim." Certainly, it would be out of place for Jeremiah, or anyone else, to pray for Jehovah to reverse His judgment.—Jeremiah 7:9, 15.
In line with this, the apostle John wrote about proper prayer to God. First, he assured Christians: "No matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us." (1 John 5:14) Then, regarding praying in behalf of others, John continued: "If anyone catches sight of his brother sinning a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and he will give life to him, yes, to those not sinning so as to incur death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16) Jesus also spoke of sin that "will not be forgiven," that is, sin against the holy spirit.—Matthew 12:31, 32.
Does this mean that all who are expelled from the Christian congregation for sinning unrepentantly have committed sins that "incur death" and thus should not be prayed about? This would not necessarily be the case because in some instances such transgressions are not sins that incur death. In fact, it is difficult to tell if they are. A typical example is King Manasseh of Judah. He erected altars to false gods, offered up his own sons in sacrifice, practiced spiritism, and put a carved image in Jehovah’s temple. In fact, the Bible says that Manasseh and the people did "what was bad more than the nations whom Jehovah had annihilated from before the sons of Israel." For all of this, Jehovah punished Manasseh by sending him as captive in fetters to Babylon.—2 Kings 21:1-9; 2 Chronicles 33:1-11.
Were Manasseh’s sins, gross as they were, the kind that incur death? Apparently not, for the account goes on to say about him: "As soon as it caused him distress, he softened the face of Jehovah his God and kept humbling himself greatly because of the God of his forefathers. And he kept praying to Him, so that He let himself be entreated by him and He heard his request for favor and restored him to Jerusalem to his kingship; and Manasseh came to know that Jehovah is the true God."—2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
Thus, we should not jump to the conclusion that a person must be guilty of sin that incurs death solely because he is expelled from the congregation. It may take time for the true heart condition of the individual to be revealed. In fact, it is often stated that one of the purposes of disfellowshipping is to cause the sinner to wake up and hopefully to repent and turn around.
Since the person is no longer in the congregation, any change in heart and attitude may be observed first by those close to him, such as a marriage mate or family members. Those observing such changes may conclude that the transgressor did not commit a sin that incurs death. They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God’s inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with His will.—Psalm 44:21; Ecclesiastes 12:14.
While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the sinner has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one. For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private, leaving any further development in the matter in the hands of the responsible elders in the congregation
