I ran them off ! (page 4)

Confession

Quandry, Old Flame has made clear that he was both calm and polite. This being the case, full responsibility for their possibly being "scared" cannot fairly be attributed to him.

I have just lived long enough to know that it is better to treat people as we would like to be treated.

So have I. This is why I find much more fault with people who would, as a general rule, blatantly ignore the rights of property owners--than I do with those who calmly and politely remind them of these rights. We may very well attribute their being "scared," on some level, to the fact that they know they are in the wrong for disrespectfully brushing off the rights of others.

daniel-p

When I was a pioneer, I would just hit a couple doors at a time in places where the manageers/landlords gave us trouble. The driver would just pull up and let one person out to do 2 or 3 doors, then split and come back to some other doors a few days later. In this case I don't think there's a whole lot to do about it, unless your tenants call the police themselves (which I doubt they would do) when you're not around. Plus, the chances they won't even open the door or genuinely not be home are probably good, so the JWs are just wasting their time in the first place.

I understand the way you feel (I think), but I don't see why it's such a big deal they don't knock on doors and talk to people. I manage an apartment complex (I don't own it) myself and I have never made an issue of the mormons or JWs (especially since the JWs would know me anyway) coming around. I don't like to talk to them at my door, but I figure the tenants in my complex can make that decision for themselves.

I guess it goes back to a more fundamental issue: do we, as ex-JWs, view all active JWs as wrong, and inherently mislead and therefore a threat to everyone they try to convert? I don't agree with that assumption. I don't assume that every JW "has it wrong" or is a danger to other people's spirituality. We all need some sort of belief system, and for some people JW-ism works quite well. It's sad, but some people need to be sheep and follow physical leaders and be told what to do. That by no means absolves the leaders of responsibility for their heinous mandates and orders, but what I mean is for some people, being a Jehovah's Witness works quite well. But since we have come out of it and our experiences are negative (inherently so) of course we think they are the devil.

Confession

Hi, Daniel...

I don't see why it's such a big deal they don't knock on doors and talk to people. I manage an apartment complex (I don't own it) myself and I have never made an issue of the mormons or JWs (especially since the JWs would know me anyway) coming around. I don't like to talk to them at my door, but I figure the tenants in my complex can make that decision for themselves.

And so, if you were the owner, you'd be able to exercise your right to allow JWs or others to call on those in the complex.

This forum is an excellent demonstration that people can have differing opinions on a variety of matters. Truth is, I'm not sure what I'd do myself if I were in charge of an apartment complex. I might allow such calling; I might not. Regardless, I support Old Flame (and any other apartment complex owners and/or managers) in their right to refuse this activity on their property if they so choose. And if I were ignoring their rules, I would expect to be told so.

daniel-p

And so, if you were the owner, you'd be able to exercise your right to allow JWs or others to call on those in the complex.

Of course I could. But this discussion was never about property rights. It was about the reasonableness of the matter. Old flame can do what ever he wants - after all, it's his property. If I owned an apartment complex I might do the same - however, it would probably be out of fear or getting sued if by chance someone was to hurt themselves while on my property, and not just because I didn't like them knocking on my tenant's doors.

I'm sure some tenants are thankful for what he's done but on the other hand, I knew quite a few older folks who loved to have me visit them as a JW pioneer. I never tried to exploit them or do any harm - most of the time I just sat with them and chatted about things. Some people don't want the JW's calling, but some actually enjoy discussing the Bible and what have you. I don't see any harm in that, nor allowing my neighbors to make up their own minds about the matter.

But as has been said before, to each his own. He can do what he wants. I just don't see it the same way.

Confession

I'm sorry if my understanding of this thread--and the discussion that has resulted is incorrect. It seemed to me that Old Flame was referring to his property rights from the beginning...

The witnesses came to my complex today, this time it was two very good looking women. I walked up to them and calmly said that this is the second warning that they were trespassing on my property and that no Jehovah's Witnesses are aloud on this property knocking on doors.

While it's true that, as part of her post, Quandry asked why he didn't let tenants make up their own minds, I think her primary point was that his informing them of their violation was 'bad manners to ladies.' I objected to this characterization. I understand you are more interested in discussing the reasonableness of creating such a restriction. On this I have no strong opinions. The Libertarian in me says, "Keep things open. Let people do what they want." But it's also the Libertarian in me that says if a property owner "wants" to keep solicitors or preachers away, he should be able to.

For the first time in my life, at age 40, I have become a homeowner. It's a new home in a brand new subdivision. I cannot tell you how frequently salesmen are ringing my doorbell. Security Systems, Pest Control, Water Softeners, Landscapers, Pet Grooming Services, Pool Companies... I have been both polite and clear that I don't want any of them coming around anymore; I am terribly bothered by their incessant doorbell ringing. I'd have to say that the great majority would like to keep salesmen and/or JWs away. They may believe in freedom of religion. They may understand that JWs sincerely think they are bringing them something important. But if a large majority of people in an apartment complex consider their visits a nuisance, (to me) it seems responsible for a landlord to make reasonable efforts to reduce nuisances in this way.

oldflame

I hope that in time you will learn compassion, tenderness, and tolerance. It will look better on you. (By the way, Jesus was not driving out ladies, he was driving out money grubbing men--maybe I am getting old and out of tune with society in general but I still feel that real men do not treat ladies in this fashion--no matter what the supposed reason)

Allow me to say this one more time to those who think I am a rude prick. I Never raised my voice or use profound language. I was not rude by any means !

I simply told them that I had warned before and the next time I was calling the police. Calling the police is what scared them. Oh and the signs posted ? They are now !

As far as my tenants go ? I have spoken to them and they all except one who is a witness or studying to be a witness have plainly told me thank you for keeping them away. This is why I live on sight, to keep order and to keep all things in a working fashion.

Quandry,

You obviously think I am a male chauvinist, but your wrong it would not matter if it were men or woman, in fact it was men who I warned the first time and wouldn't you know it ? They ran faster than the women.

I am not a rude prick to anyone unless they really deserve it and if anyone has been rude here it is you for your assumptions and accusations against me.

OUTLAW

I toss JW`s off my property too!.OldFlame did the right thing!.I always tell JW`s not to come back..Usually we have a conversation first..They laugh(I have that affect on people..LOL!!),get pissed off(I know too much) and leave(On good terms)..A whole carload of JW ladys stopped at my ranch..After I told them to put me on the do not call list,they went back to the car..It wouldn`t start..They were stuck in the middle of nowhere,on my ranch!..LOL!!..I had to go down to the front gate and repair the car!..LOL!!..They loved me..I got the car started..They said thank-you,and waved to me as they drove off into the sunset..THE END..LOL!!...OUTLAW

daniel-p

The Libertarian in me says, "Keep things open. Let people do what they want." But it's also the Libertarian in me that says if a property owner "wants" to keep solicitors or preachers away, he should be able to.

Thus the impossible implementation of pure Libertarian ideals... LOL - but that's another topic.

johnny cip

I DON'T SEE WHY SOME CRY-BABIES ARE GIVING OLD FLAME a hard time. He did the right thing. jw's have balls till you put them in their place. he don't want him on his property. WHAT is so hard for some ppl to understand. he has a constitutional right to keep DOPE PEDDLERS OFF HIS LAND. or anyone else for that matter. jw;s as a lot are ignorant , disrespectful, lying son of a bitches. there is no need to be nice to some females that are lying wt whores. let's have respect for honest ppl that don't want ZOMBIES ON THIER LAND. i wish it was the 1940's again . and see the jw's get beating up by mobs. by the way did i say i hate jw's. screw being nice to them after you asked them to leave you alone. john

zagor

They'll probably come back and is spirit of "Reasoning Book" ask you "if you just don't like religion in general and if you'd like to have some question answered"

I've had two young ladies few weeks ago come to the door too. It seem WTBS is now drilling them on how to use "Reasoning Book" efficiently so watch out, lmao

I ran them off !

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