What's up with Islam?

by Tyrone van leyen 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    James,

    I live in Minnesota and have been folllowing this taxicab controversy. I agree it's ridiculous and annoying for people who want only to bring a bottle of liquor home from the airport to have to put up with an intolerant policy ("no alcohol on our cab") due to a religious law.

    It still is a matter of extreme Islam factions (in this case MAS, the Muslim American Society, Minnesota chapter) imposing its standards on rank-and-file Muslims. If you read into the linked article, you'll see that it appears to be a controversy between Arab and non-Arab Muslims playing itself out here. Islam is different than large Christian religions in that it does not have a central decision-making body, so that smaller authority groups therein can issue edicts or fatwas.

    Unfortunately that leads to misunderstandings and resentment, and again tars a whole group of people based on the radicalism of a few.

    http://www.startribune.com/191/story/766918.html

    Airport taxi flap about alcohol has deeper significance

    The airport taxi controversy may go deeper than the quandary over whether to accommodate Somali Muslim cabdrivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying alcohol. Behind the scenes, a struggle for power and religious authority is apparently playing out.

    By Katherine Kersten, Star Tribune

    Last update: October 25, 2006 – 9:50 PM

    The taxi controversy at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport has caught the nation's attention. But the dispute may go deeper than the quandary over whether to accommodate Somali Muslim cabdrivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying alcohol. Behind the scenes, a struggle for power and religious authority is apparently playing out.

    At the Starbucks coffee shop in Minneapolis' Cedar-Riverside neighborhood, a favorite Somali gathering spot, holidaymakers celebrating Eid, the end of Ramadan, filled the tables on Monday. Several taxis were parked outside.

    An animated circle of Somalis gathered when the question of the airport controversy was raised.

    "I was surprised and shocked when I heard it was an issue at the airport," said Faysal Omar. "Back in Somalia, there was never any problem with taking alcohol in a taxi."

    Jama Dirie said, "If a driver doesn't pick up everyone, he should get his license canceled and get kicked out of the airport."

    Two of the Somalis present defended the idea that Islam prohibits cabdrivers from transporting passengers with alcohol. An argument erupted. The consensus seemed to be that only a small number of Somalis object to transporting alcohol. It's a matter of personal opinion, not Islamic law, several men said.

    Ahmed Samatar, a nationally recognized expert on Somali society at Macalester College, confirmed that view. "There is a general Islamic prohibition against drinking," he said, "but carrying alcohol for people in commercial enterprise has never been forbidden. There is no basis in Somali cultural practice or legal tradition for that.

    "This is one of those new concoctions."It is being foisted on the Somali community by an inside or outside group," he added. "I do not know who."

    But many Somali drivers at the airport are refusing to carry passengers with alcohol. When I asked Patrick Hogan, Metropolitan Airports Commission spokesman, for his explanation, he forwarded a fatwa, or religious edict, that the MAC had received. The fatwa proclaims that "Islamic jurisprudence" prohibits taxi drivers from carrying passengers with alcohol, "because it involves cooperating in sin according to the Islam."

    The fatwa, dated June 6, 2006, was issued by the "fatwa department" of the Muslim American Society, Minnesota chapter, and signed by society officials.

    The society is mediating the conflict between the cab drivers and the MAC. That seems odd, since the society itself clearly has a stake in the controversy's outcome.

    How did the MAC connect with the society? "The Minnesota Department of Human Rights recommended them to us to help us figure out how to handle this problem," Hogan said.

    Omar Jamal, director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center, thinks he knows why the society is promoting a "no-alcohol-carry" agenda with no basis in Somali culture. "MAS is an Arab group; we Somalis are African, not Arabs," he said. "MAS wants to polarize the world, create two camps. I think they are trying to hijack the Somali community for their Middle East agenda. They look for issues they can capitalize on, like religion, to rally the community around. The majority of Somalis oppose this, but they are vulnerable because of their social and economic situation."

    The society

    What is the Muslim American Society? In September 2004 the Chicago Tribune published an investigative article. The society was incorporated in 1993, the paper reported, and is the name under which the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood operates.

    The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna. The Tribune described the Brotherhood as "the world's most influential Islamic fundamentalist group."Because of its hard-line beliefs, the U.S. Brotherhood has been an increasingly divisive force within Islam in America, fueling the often bitter struggle between moderate and conservative Muslims," the paper reported.

    The international Muslim Brotherhood "preaches that religion and politics cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be Islamic," according to the Tribune. U.S. members emphasize that they follow American laws, but want people here to convert to Islam so that one day a majority will support a society governed by Islamic law. How are society members to respond when questioned about a Muslim Brotherhood connection? The Tribune cites an undated internal memo: "If asked, 'Are you the Muslim Brothers?' leaders should respond that they are an independent group called the Muslim American Society."

    The April 2001 issue of the society's magazine, the American Muslim, lists "essential books" for understanding Islam. They include works by Hassan al-Banna, the Brotherhood's founder, and Sayyid Qutb, one of its most violent theoreticians.

    Here's the flavor of these authors' writings:

    "Always cherish the intention of jihad and the desire for martyrdom in the Way of Allah, and actually prepare yourself for that," wrote Al-Banna.

    Osama bin Laden relied heavily on Qutb in formulating his world view, according to the 9/11 Commission. Qutb had "an enormous loathing of Western society and history," states the commission's report. He taught that "no middle ground exists" in the "struggle between God and Satan." All Muslims must therefore take up arms in this fight, he said.

    Hassan Mohamud is vice president of the society's Minnesota chapter. The society is independent and has no connection with the Muslim Brotherhood, he said.

    The Minnesota chapter's website, however, states that the organization's roots lie in the Islamic revival movement that "brought the call of Islam to Muslim masses ... to reestablish Islam as a total way of life."

    Mohamud says the society has three goals: to present the "real image" of Islam in American society, to preserve the identity of Muslims here and to "make that identity fit without having clashes between cultures and laws."

    He emphasizes, however, that Muslims must follow shari'a, or Islamic law, in every aspect of their lives. "There are two conflicting systems here -- two ways of life -- that want to live in the same place and respect each other," he says. The society aims to facilitate conciliation between the two.

    Mohamud adds that Americans need to learn about Islamic law because the Muslim population here is growing. That's why the proposed two-tier system for airport cabdrivers is important, he says. It could become a national model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to contractual arrangements to the workplace.

    MAC officials will hold another meeting today about the airport controversy, and Mohamud says he will try to revive the two-tiered pilot project for taxis. Whatever the meeting's outcome, we now have reason to believe that the issue is only a prologue to a larger drama playing out in Minnesota and the United States.

    Katherine Kersten • [email protected]

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene
    This is a religion I am not too familiar with. So forgive me where I err.

    Same here. I also had lots of questions, triggered by my growing friendship with a Muslim and by what I was seeing in the news and on this forum. So I took my questions to both pro-Islamic and anti-Islamic websites and did some searching. Very interesting! Here are a few I found helpful-- http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml http://www.islamicity.com/education/understandingislamandmuslims/ http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ http://whyislam.org/877/ (The "anti" sites are easy enough to find all by yourself, and while I recommend looking at them as well, there are none I recommend specifically. They tend to take certain verses of the Qur'an way out of context, like Deputy Dog did, and as do some Muslims for their own purposes, which can be very misleading.)

    It seems that this religion accepts Jesus, but only as a minor prophet. This must mean that they do not see the bible as a holy book.

    Yes, we (I say "we" because in the midst of my researching I became a Muslim) do accept Jesus as a prophet (peace be upon him), and a very special and important prophet whose return we expect and look forward to. There are no "minor prophets" in Islam, as far as I am aware, but all are equally respected. Muhammad (peace be upon him) is considered to be the final prophet, sent to all mankind rather than just one group, with a message that was promised to be protected from distortion. The Qur'an teaches that Allah sent prophets to people of every nation throughout history, but only a few are mentioned by name in it. It is believed that the messages sent through Moses and David and Jesus were distorted over time and so are no longer reliable. The Qur'an came to make clear and affirm what was sent before.

    One day I was talking to a man from Jordan. A nice enough fellow he was. I mentioned that King David probably had venerial disease as the scriptures mention a burning in his loins not to mention all the women that he slept with, that absalom his son later wanted to pork. Did he ever take offense!" Why you say that?" "Why you say that?" I said, "well, it's in the bible." He didn't dispute that, but it seems the Koran has cleaned it up a bit.

    It is important in Islam not to disrespect any of the prophets, including David.

    Was the bible borrowed from? Is Islam not aware that the enmity exists between us because God's promised seed came from Sarah rather than the slave girl Hagar. Do they reject this? Judaism was completed with Christ so why are they trying to complete Christianity was there something wrong with it?

    We believe in Jesus as Prophet and Messiah (peace be upon him) and in his promised return, as I mentioned above, but we do not believe that he was a ransom sacrifice. We believe that God guides us through the Qur'an and forgives us individually in accordance with our repentance for doing what is wrong and our attempts to do what is right.

    I find it remarkable that any religion can look in there holy books and start wars just like the crusades. Yet others can look at the same holy books and derive peace and comfort from them. Is Islam seeking world domination. It seems that christianity is only looking at the afterlife or the future for it's hopes but Islam is looking for world domination here and now and death has a different meaning as well. If that's the case I would deem it a mistake to allow the swearing in of Keith Ellison on a Koran. If I am wrong though and the Islamists see it that way, then they should be encouraging whites in their country to swear an oath of office on the holy bible. We all know of course this will never happen let alone a white ruler in the middle east. I've heard it said that if you brought a bible to the middle east in many areas it would be torn apart. What sort of tolerance is this. It's a double standard. Can you imagine what would happen if you took a koran and did that what would happen to you! Look at the outrage caused by a friggin cartoon. I beleive we are witnessing the beginning of a new trend wherin simply by numbers we will be overun.

    The rest of your comments have been addressed quite well by others, I think.

    I hope you continue your quest for knowledge and understanding

    ~Merry

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Well, I am not saying that every single cab driver is going to follow these jerk's fatwa, but I think that it is obvious that Islam in general has the propensity to call attention to itself by being disagreeable and non-accomodating toward ordinary Americans.

    I say take the cab license away immediately and permanently of any single one who gets caught doing this.

    Deputy Dog makes a telling point by the quotation from the Koran: intolerance is bred into this religion on the most fundamental levels.

    And, the Muhamad quoted in your article also reveals an agenda: He wants to force a confrontation on this in order to "make Americans accomodate Islam". I believe that in fact a majority of Islam thinks this was too, at least in private. This is just like the 6 mullahs that got kicked off the airplane because of extreme behavior - they knew what they were doing and did it anyway so that they could cry out over "persecution".

    And I am sick and tired of hearing that crap about how Bush and America are bringing this all about by not "understanding and accomodating Islam".

    Enough is Enough, already.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Tyrone,

    Where I live they wanted shariah law in ontario for divorces but didn't get it.{ Yet.} Everywhere they go in the western world they want there way. You would be laughed at if you tried that in there countries.

    It might come as a surprise, but this is exactly how it works in many Islamic countries, so this may seem a very reasonable demand from a Moslem pov, even though we deem it unacceptable from a secular pov (and even more so in France, where only the State can perform or dissolve marriages, not churches). In the Shari'a marriages and divorces are ruled by the religious law of everyone's community. If you are a a member of a recognised Christian community (e.g. Armenian or Chaldean) in the Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, you are under your church's jurisdiction for such matters, not an Islamic court.

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    Deputy Dog makes a telling point by the quotation from the Koran: intolerance is bred into this religion on the most fundamental levels.

    CONTEXT (<clickable link)

    Historical Background

    Now let us consider the historical background of the Surah. The series of events that have been discussed in this Surah took place after the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiyah. By that time, one-third of Arabia had come under the sway of Islam which had established itself as a powerful, well organized and civilized Islamic State. This Treaty afforded further opportunities to Islam to spread its influence in the comparatively peaceful atmosphere created by it. After this Treaty, two events took place, which led to very important results:

    ...for more click above

    Also from the Qur'an:

    God forbids you not, with regards to those you not for [your] faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just. 60:8
    Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. 2:190
    If they seek peace, then seek you peace. 8:61
    O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. 49:13
    ...take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law... 6:151
    Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from Error. 2:256
    To you be your Way, and to me mine. 109:6

    And from the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

    Powerful is not he who knocks the other down, indeed powerful is he who controls himself in a fit of anger.
    An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a black has no superiority over white, nor a white has any superiority over black, except by piety and good action.

    I have read the Qur'an and some Hadith and have not learned intolerance from any of it it at all. I am truly sorry to hear of any Muslims displaying intolerance to others or when following their consciences seems intolerant to others. But I think the obstacles to understanding and acceptance of each other are not insurmountable. http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544482

    ~Merry

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    You can make any holy book say what you want. Even the Bible! So please don't tell me the Koran is the only book where you can do that.

    Here are 545 verses where the Bible teaches intolerance:

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

  • Tyrone van leyen
    Tyrone van leyen

    This is informative, and you all make good points. Open discussion is what this board is all about, and I'm glad to see that openess. That is how progress is made. I'm don't doubt that this is a hot topic either where strong emotives or lack of knowledge can overide tolerance. Lets congradulate ourselves. This boards openess is my present way of healing from my Jw past.

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    Cool

    ~Merry

  • troucul
    troucul

    Ibn Warraq said that Mohammed was confused between Mary Magdelene and Mary Martha. Good book, "Why I am Not a Muslim". A good read, except for when he digs into Christianity.

    He also talked about an Arab poem, entitled the "Perfumed Garden." Talked about boys with 'kissed curled hair....so mount a young boy like a gazelle that stands next to her mate, for women are the mounts of devils!'

    And I wondered why Iraqi boys aged 13-15 always held hands affectionately....

    C'est deg!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    And I wondered why Iraqi boys aged 13-15 always held hands affectionately....

    Didn't they teach you anything about local customs when they sent you there? Male friends holding hands in the street is very common, without any hint of homosexuality, in many places in the Middle-East and Africa, and it has nothing to do with Islam either.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit