by The wanderer 39 Replies latest jw friends
How would I respond?
"Who ever said we need religion? Why would we need anything more than to enjoy life? When the owner of the universe decides it's time we "believe" in him or do anything other than living, I'm sure the message will be made known to every single one of us. In the mean time, I don't really care to follow any man made rules masquerading as a message from above."
Sorry but that simply is not true. Quite a few Witnesses have read this book. You may wish to believe this but it is not accurate.
How many of the witnesses make it public that they read the Ray franz book?
Let the elders know or the CO or anyone in the congr. that you read the book or that you visit "apostate websites" and see what happens.
How about this: The nation of Israel had been given their orders. They ignored them, and were punished when they ignored them. God did not change his rules or directions. God stayed the same. It was the Israelites whose flame faltered before God. In the case of the WT, they claim to be guided by God, but then claim that God is giving them conflicting information/understanding than what was given previously. The WT people-JWs keep doing what the WT tells them to do-faithfully following the organization in everything until the organization tells them that Jehovah's requirements have changed or been refined. The JWs as a whole are very faithful to WT teachings, although sometimes it is hard to keep up with the current teaching, god knows!
So, while God did not abandon Israel for their sin=as a nation, he often punished the sinners directly. Also, those people knew that what they were doing was going against God. JW's are not following God, they are allowing a group of men proven to be faulty lead them into destruction. And those men KNOW they are doing what they think is right, not being led by the spirit. They are making politic decisions, financial decisions, legal decisions and couching them in a way to mislead those who are willing to be lied to. And then they claim -all of them, that GOD is the author of all this confusion. THAT is a pretty big difference if you ask me. Which you did! :)
If you are going to be fair -the Bible God appears to have a few faults too!
Wanderer, I am confused. I don't want to hijack the thread but the JWs that I have been talking too repeatedly tell me that Jehovah has cast off the nation of Israel, that's why the 144,000 in Revelation can't be earthly Jews but "spiritual Israel" (ie them). Can you enlarge on your original post in light of this?
Hello Wanderer, I've come to the point that I dont think God was with Israel or the Watchtower society. If by some chance he was and is than its obvious that he is not the kind of God that I respect. But if he is God he would have known that I would be this wasy before he made me. So what can I do?
I was registered with a JW board some days ago. There was a thread on the role of natural Israel in the divine purpose. JW stated that Israel could not be God's people any longer. They also pointed out from the Proclaimers-book that one sign was that Israel joined the United Nations. When I asked what this meant for the recent JW involvement with the UN I was deleted. :-)
My experience with JW's has caused me to want to abandon ALL religion.
If not for my abandonment, I would say that PROTESTANTISM is closer
to the essence of living according to Jesus Christ.
Mainstream religion needs adjusting, Watchtower needs to be abandoned.
GET OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE.
"Many Jehovah’s Witnesses will state the nation of Israel had many flaws, but God did not abandon them.
Therefore, any noted flaws should not discount we have the true religion."
For me then the question becomes, did God choose them in the first place? What evidence backs up their contention that he did?
The Catholic Church "adjusts" their doctrine every century or two. They are also the oldest Christian religion. So could they not use the very same argument to prove that they are the true religion? If God did not abandon Israel for killing the prophets and other grave wrongs, then why should we imagine he abandoned the Christians of the first millenium entirely to apostasy, only to anoint a hat salesman from Brooklyn to revive true worship at the end of the second?
NanaR
Can the jw give one, just one example from the bible where a true prophet made false prophecies and God continued to allow him to go on with these false prophecies? What was supposed to happen to one who made false prophecies? Did the apostles ever publicly teach falshoods? The jw will say they had 'wrong expectations', but that was in a private conversation with Christ, they never taught their 'wrong expectations' in public or to anyone else. If the wt was chosen to be God's mouthpiece here on earth why would He let the jw's continue to teach wrong teachings? example- the cross was used until the 30's, the date of Christ' return was still being taught as 1874 for many years after 1914, holidays were still being celebrated, this list is long (see Captives of Concept by Don Cameron for more) If this was truly God's org would He really allow such blatant falsehoods to continue for years and years? If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow then where do all the changes come from? Men or God? Why not just follow the Bible then, it doesn't change, men change. We need not listen to them.
