by jwfacts 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
By definition faith is something we accept as true though is can not be proven.
I was thinking about the scripture defining faith at Hebrews 11:1 " Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for.... "
Assured expectation = we are convinced something is true without proof.
Things hoped for = whatever we desire.
In other words to have faith means that "we convince ourselves that what we desire to be true is true."
Put that way faith does not seem very realistic or virtuous.
Respectfully, I think you have that arse about tit
In the context of the verse, "hope" is something we accept as true.
"Faith" is the evidence that assures the expectation.
If you're attempting to approach this from a JW understanding of the text you will fail, as faith isn't encouraged. Blind obedience has replaced it. The phrase "patiently wait on Jehovah" being a prime example.
In that latter context, "patience" isn't a virtue, either
Faith is NOT a virtue, IMO!
Faith is a 'fantasy' belief.
'Faith' makes men fly planes into tall buildings.
'Faith' makes men blow themselves up in cars and trains.
'Faith' makes people die because they hav 'faith' that a certain medical treatment is wrong in the eyes of God.
Faith is irrational and certainly NOT a virtue!
But that's just my opinion.
Think about this for a moment. If faith is linked to hope, how is it possible to have a hope in God's opinion of a medical procedure? Sorry, but I think the word has been so misused by the WTS that we continue to misapply it.
Faith has a peculiar application to a relationship with God, upon which the belief of "salvation" and an "afterlife" rests.
IMHO to apply it to daft things like blood transfusions and bungee jumping is a WTS abheration.
I view it like this LT! Their 'Faith' is in a God who will give them the gift of eternal life if they obey all of his commands. So their 'Faith' in this God has them believeing that the only way to receive this faith and hope in the future, is to totally obey every last command even if it kills them. This is then a test of their faith which gives them their reward. They then have faith and hope in this reward.
Test my faith to the death and then reward me!!
Gill:
And yet ironically the majority of the Christian denominations, which base a good deal of their theory on the very verse in Hebrews that has been quoted, aren't about that. Being "good" doesn't buy your place in heaven, Jesus does.
On this single point I would suggest the WTS not only has it wrong but distracts millions. People look to their works, and a list of rules, instead of simply looking to Christ (having faith in him) and leaving the rest of it to him.
Is it a virtue to have faith in someone who has never let you down?
LT, I expected to hear from you.
You make an interesting distinction. Faith in Jesus is different than faith in some coming event like Armageddon or reward such as life in paradise.
Faith in Jesus may be based on a particular experience, such as you have had. However, for someone such as myself that has never been born again, nor on the other hand had demon attacks, there is little to base that faith on. So it is hard to understand the type of faith you have. And it is hard to say that I have never been (or felt) let down by Jesus.
Gill makes a valid point too. Blind faith, or dogmatic faith leads to many of the world's attrocities, and is used to justify all manner of evil.
LittleToe - I understand what you are saying BUT I believe that people who claim a faith, the majority of them, are still, even though they may be naturally good people, 'scoring points for the afterlife.' Also, I try to look at it as even in Christian faiths, there are many different versions of what 'saved' means and how to achieve it.
There are those who believe that just to have 'Faith' in Jesus saves them, but then why should it just because it says that in the Bible. It says many things in the bible that can be used to disprove or prove that. ie 'Faith without works is dead'...etc
There are those that believe you have to constantly prove your Faith, ie the JW slaves.
There's the different religions, far larger than the Christian faiths all over the world who have their different views on Faith and what it can do for or to you.
'Faith' is an abstract thought with different meanings and repurcussion to the lives of everyone.....even the victims of a suicide bomber feels the repurcussions of what his faith might be.
Anyone can have any faith and in the end, it is a different meaning to different people.
Christianity, is really a very small religion, but its repurcussions are felt all over the world.
Islam is a very large relgion and its repurcussions are also felt all over the world.
All of them are based on a warped sense of human history and a mis understanding of time and how long the human race have walked this planet.
These faiths are based on misconceptions of time and a nonsensical belief that WE have only been here for 6000 years or since God created the mythical Adam and Eve. Even Adam and Eve's origins, and the history of these two characters requires 'faith' or a suspended disbelief system to continue.
When history is rewritten, as it will have to be in the near future, these religious faiths in Gods, peoples, history, will be shaken to their core and we will begin to see religions crumble.
I doubt whether religion, faith or hope will be even comparable to what it is now in another hundred or two hundred years.
To an ant, a human being may be a 'God' and someone he can have faith in and hope in, (I don't know how ants think obviously, but I'm going with the size side of the example). But in reality, this 'God' is only a human being.
It is our miniscule size in both physical aspects and life expectancy that gives us a warped understanding and our misconceptions.
Whether we ever find out what we really should have faith in, I don't know. Perhaps we do when we die, but until then, it is essential that we have an open mind to the infinite possibilities that many of us dare not even begin to contemplate that perhaps, everything we know is wrong!
People who have no faith..are easy to spot by their actions and the kind of decisions they make..especially those who abuse their authority and have faith that nobody is watching and keeping score just waiting to confront them with the evidence of their misconduct...to such a degree they don't even bother with preparing a defense for their actions.
Thats my opinion on it.
Dragon - I respect your opinion but would like to say just one thing. 'Faith' does not make a person good. A person is 'good' because they are good in their heart and would be good even if NO ONE was ever watching.
I believe that the priest/minister pedophile scandal that exists in many religions proves that point.
'Faith' that you are saved because you 'believe' does not make a person good and so is not a virtue.
I am 'ducking' now at the upset this might cause in some people but is not virtuous to just believe something.
It is virtuous to be a good and faithful person, not to believe in second hand beliefs. Sorry. (Runs for cover!)
