by frankiespeakin 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The jury is still out for me on rebirths. I'm kinda happy with the concept of just getting one shot at it, though I can understand the Cathar view of this.
There does seem to be a dharmic retribution factor at work, however, as highlighted in the "threefold law".
That which some call the collective consciousness? Accessing it is one thing, controlling it another.
The "deluded human" explanation is almost as poor an excuse as "there's no evidence of a missing link", IMHO.
I think that we all pre-existed as spirit creatures with God...and we all pass through the flesh that our spirit might be manifest for a short time to be delivered to either side of the gulf for final judgement. (reward or destruction)...in other words..making this time in the flesh a second chance for some(rebel angels) in my opinion.
A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters. (Jeremiah 17:13)
Remember this and show yourselves men; recall to mind, O you transgressors. Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it. ( Isaiah 46:8-11)
love michelle
Some men's sins are clearly evident, preceding them to the judgment, but those of some men follow later. Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden. 1 Timothy 5:24-25.
love michelle
Narkissos:
I believe we are all writing on the sand.
Knowing is cutting out pieces of "something" (being, reality, whatever) into separate "things" (of different categories like space and time, objects and events, etc.). Any "light" this process sheds on "anything" invariably results in obscuring "something else".
And the (non-)essence of this "light" is negation. We cast it wherever we look. Only against the negation of language do "things" appear -- offer an appearance or (sur)face -- as they seem to be.
Sometimes I think of languages and minds as beingworms: an army of "nos" splitting and breaking the unnamed like the worm does the earth; making it looser, smoother, more mobile or fluid perhaps; how our language-based technique does alter the so-called "material world" may be just an "aspect" of this process.
Or bubbles of "I am not" in the ocean of "being" -- the "outside of language" which we may never know better than the negation of a negation.
This is beautiful and insightful writing.
It seems the mind is continually cutting peaces out of the already whole-cloth of existence; and then wraps itself in its patchwork me-and-my-relationship-to-the-outside-universe. So, in the end, nothing the mind offers as "true" is the reality and actuality we seek; rather just more patchwork to reinforce the illusion of "self" and fragmented isolation.
Am "I" this shard of existence that seems separate and apart from all else? Can the minds frantic weaving be seen as it attempts to protect its patchwork creation with the thread of beliefs and thoughts of reincarnation and past lives? Am "I" what is believed to be? What is true? Who/what am I, really?
Perhaps sincere and earnest questions like these will bring an end to the dramatic story called "me". What remains, what IS, when there is no story???
You are That.
j
Enoch
Chapter 44
Also another phenomenon I saw in regard to the lightnings: how some of the stars arise and become lightnings and cannot part with their new form.
Chapter 46
7 And these are they who judge the stars of heaven,
- [And raise their hands against the Most High],
- And tread upon the earth and dwell upon it.
- And all their deeds manifest unrighteousness,
- And their power rests upon their riches,
- And their faith is in the gods which they have made with their hands,
- And they deny the name of the Lord of Spirits,
8 And they persecute the houses of His congregations,
And the faithful who hang upon the name of the Lord of Spirits.
love michelle
JT,
Thank you.
Perhaps sincere and earnest questions like these will bring an end to the dramatic story called "me". What remains, what IS, when there is no story???You are That.
Imho: as far back as we can look "nature" and "culture" (including stories and history) are interwoven beyond separation; the human mind, artificial and negative as it may be, has been continuously transforming "reality," for the better and the worse. Breaking with any cultural or mental construct (ideas, beliefs, etc.) is yet one further act of negation opening up "reality" to further creation -- again and again, for the better and the worse. To us there is simply no way back upstream of culture/mind.
To me this complicates the subjective equation into:
A. You are that.B. You are not that.C. You are the both painful and joyful, ever-opening, difference between A and B (aka consciousness).
(Anti-Hegelian subjective trinitarianism? he he...)
Rinse in daily unconsciousness and repeat from a new perspective with every further realisation down the path of becoming.
interesting thread, frankispeakin
Nark: I want your thoughts on this - if you care to take the time Thanks. For me it is about each moment being a balance of the known and the unknown - that continual opening into each new moment. I think fear of the unknown is the greatest fear of humankind and so we continually contract into that which we know. Faith and/or courage to step into the unknown is following that 'knowing' which is beyond immediate cognitive understanding.
"St. Paul states that faith is ‘the conviction of things not seen’. And in fact, faith gives us access to an unknown world that is infinitely vast, where we begin to breathe, to nourish ourselves and to gain strength. Little by little, realms once foreign to us become familiar, and as a result we know. This is why we must not set faith and knowledge against each other, since the two go together: faith opens the way to new knowledge. Faith is the infinite, and within this infinity, knowledge carves out a small territory. It is our faith which probes the infinite and makes us penetrate ever further. Our knowledge of the divine world thus grows, thanks to our faith. Faith always precedes knowledge. In order to know, we must first believe, and once we know, we no longer believe: faith carries us towards something we do not yet know. Once we know, we no longer need to believe, because we are beyond belief. This is how, little by little, we arrive at perfect understanding."Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov
zenism it really does seem that Paul, Jesus Christ and others were trying to share with us what they had experienced themselves but have been badly misunderstood. They were pointing to the One much bigger than human understanding.
I read somewhere that faith and awareness go hand in hand - not sure if i understood it correctly.
Hey zensim,
For me it is about each moment being a balance of the known and the unknown - that continual opening into each new moment. I think fear of the unknown is the greatest fear of humankind and so we continually contract into that which we know. Faith and/or courage to step into the unknown is following that 'knowing' which is beyond immediate cognitive understanding.
Very much agreed. That's what I personally call "faith," as opposed to "belief(s)" which work as an ersatz of knowledge. Not faith in somebody or something in particular, just the implicit and basically unwarranted trust which allows you to open yourself (ephphatha, Mark 7:34) to novelty, otherness, change and risk, in the absence (or the insufficiency) of certainty and guarantee. In that sense it is inversely proportional to knowledge indeed. And he set out, not knowing where he was going (Hebrews 11:8). It may be, among other things, the first step toward knowledge -- but there is more to that first step than to whatever follows.
I am more wary of the idea I hear (rightly or wrongly) in your quotation, i.e. a sort of gradual or progressive capitalisation of subsequent "spiritual" knowledge. To me such knowledge is only capitalisable in the imaginary realm, from which we must step out to make our next first step -- by mere faith. It's close to the "beginner's spirit" of zen if I got that correctly. And a reason why the first tend to be the last, again and again.
