Debaters: Let's have It Out !

by Amazing 124 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The symmetrical biographies of John Henry Newman and John Nelson Darby sum up the problem of modern historical Protestantism groping for a solid foundational ground.

    My opinion is that there is none -- neither institutional continuity, nor creed, nor scripture, nor experience are beyond valid criticism -- and ironically the endless struggle of the alternative "foundations" have helped in making that clear to all.

    But -- still imo -- the very principle of "faith" is the opposite of the search for foundation (fundamentalism in the etymological sense). It is walking on the sea, not on solid ground.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    I'm just used to being told a similar idea in one breath and then haiving it pointedout that being LDS means I'm not.

    The Catholic church and indeed much of christianities various splinter groups gained their spiritual basis from such inclusive statements of faith formulated early on in the christian history - yet when formulated those who wrote such clearly actually meant 'as long as they accept what we believe' as history later shows. Early christians were as factional and divided as we are today and many thought all others damned.

    The Catholics have longevity because they have structure (like the Jews)IMO - I don't see any evidence for the long term viability for unstructured worship - its like a play where all the actors can read the script how they like and ignore the play producer. Modern day Catholicism owes its place in history and its prevalance to its association with Rome more than for the purity of its principles (hypothesis).

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Didier:
    Oooh, I likey!

    So does that support the Papal claim to be a modern Peter, getting out of the boat?

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    LT,

    I did not mean to imply that most Protestants center worship on the church instead of Christ. But, I can see why my comments may seem like that is what I meant to say.

    I merely meant that our being in the Church (body of Christ) is not dependant on us belonging to any one denomination. You certainly can be a Protestant or Catholic, or Baptist and be in the true Church. But it is NOT because of your religious denomination that you are in Christ's church but becuase you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    I was an active Jehovah's Witness when God's Spirit came into my heart. So again, I just meant our religious affiliation with a certain group is not a requirement. Lilly

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Q:I think you make a valid point. I also think that its a very human preoccupation to want something tangible to enhance our spirituality, in the face of "here we have no continuing city".

    As Lil states, it is "love" that binds folk together - "by this they will know..."

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Lil:
    I agree, and I'm also perplexed to note that quite a number of nominal Christians put a lot of faith in a Sunday ritual and a little good living to get them to heaven. Like you, I was still a JW when I became a Christian, so I understand where you're coming from with those comments.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Assuming God called a prophet would one be justified in ignoring what they said even if listening to that voice entailed structure? In rejecing a representative do you reject the represented? If you deny that the Catholic priest brings the body of Christ down during the sacrament then are you also saying they act blasphemously? Does the bible justify the acceptance of this? When we walk away from the anointed of God and claim the indwelling of the spirit can we have indeed received that spirit? If however, they are not anointed what do they do? Is it right to stand aside or does the spirit move us to cleanse the temple? Does the spirit trump the chosen?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    The anointing of the Spirit is a seal of being chosen (a la Romans 8, etc.). Each has a responsibility to prophetically forthtell the whole counsel of God. As a Christian you don't need a damp scimitar for that!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    So does that support the Papal claim to be a modern Peter, getting out of the boat?

    LOL. Especially as the boat is a traditional emblem of the church...

    I'm inclined to think John XXIII did give it a try. But it seems to be another era.

  • RAF
    RAF

    ... ...

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