Christians are masochists (page 3)

RAF

Ross,
(does that mean you're french is very poor ... kidding you !)

You know what I've always fell that you understand me any way and I thank you for that ...

Narkissos

Imo the first thing to drop if we want to understand anything about this topic (which I personally find fascinating) is the "normal vs. abnormal" dichotomy.

As I have said a number of times, I think it has to do with what the later Freud (from 1920 onward) called Todestrieb or "drive to death". Whereas common sense (even Freud's) opposes it to "the principle of pleasure," literal or figurative sadism/masochism points at least to a partial coincidence of those "opposites". To call it perversion, pathology or anomaly on the basis of some extreme manifestations only obscures the fact that this coincidence actually occurs in everyone, although mostly at an unconscious level. This is a disturbing, paradoxical, but integral part of what we are.

As mortal individuals we cannot think of bodily suffering or death without representing or acting them out somehow. I am also quite wary of utilitarian explanations: drawing the line between reasons and rationalisations is ultimately impossible I think.

Apothanein thelô, "I want to die," may be one of the deepest revelations of the Sibyl.

Sad emo

hi onacruse:

Or would you ask the dentist to do everything possible to minimize the pain?

Yes I would! But in the same way I'll ask God if He can help me out of a situation or if not, give me the strength to get through it. The main point is that both of these scenarios (the tooth and Christian suffering) are unavoidable and you accept any help available to ease the suffering - whereas, would I be correct in saying that a masochist will seek out pain?

RAF - what Ross said, your English is great!

bikerchic

Imo the first thing to drop if we want to understand anything about this topic (which I personally find fascinating) is the "normal vs. abnormal" dichotomy.

Nark doncha know "normal" is a setting on a dryer........

LittleToe

Actually I feel the need to clarify my comment where I stated "Christianity". This isn't entirely true, as few denominations hold a balanced view on this subject. The closest I've studied has been Greek Orthodox Monasticism and the remoter portions of Scottish Presbyterianism.

Didier:

I am also quite wary of utilitarian explanations: drawing the line between reasons and rationalisations is ultimately impossible I think.

Would you mind expanding on this comment, please?

LittleToe

Corinne:
The French that I have isn't too bad, I just have very little of it

I regret not studyiong it harder in school, as I think it is a beautiful language.

onacruse

RAF, and in return, fwiw, I predicated my posts to you with what I hope reflected my suspicion that there was something of a language barrier. At any rate, I'd rather hear your "poor" English/French than Ross's pathetically unintelligible English/Scot! LOL

minimus

Since masochism has SEXUAL connotations, to say that "Christians are masochists" is simply incorrect. But it does make for a good headline.

RAF

Thank you SadEmo (it's encouraging) and Onacruse

Ross,

I can't wait for Diane and you coming over (marsh is over PD is coming), you'll learn a bit more french and I'll learn a bit more English by hearing it in different accent. Cool ....

onacruse

Abaddon:

As this is the case I would have to say comparing such masochists with Christians does no justice what-so-ever to the masochists... Christians might get a mental buzz from suffering for Jesus... and I am sure many have misidentified the endorphine glow pain can bathe you in as 'religious exstacy' rather than a physiological reaction to stimulus... but "dilussional" is a far more appropriate tag than "masochistic", as anyone who thinks suffering validates or proves their religious faith has got to have either very sick ideas about their religion or be in a very sick religion.

Well, ya know, almost every time I start a thread, and you post back to it, my heart skips a beat and I say to myself "Oh geez, what is Abaddon gonna do now to deconstruct me?" LOL

So, it is with no small degree of pleasure (and yes, in so saying, since I've voluntarily suffered at your hands for the pleasure of this moment, I am therefore by definition a masochist!), that I must admit to complete agreement with what I bolded in your post. I had the same thought in the back of my mind when I started this thread:

1) And then there's Matthew 10:11-16. The import of that directive from Christ would be anti-masochistic: If you find suffering in one place, move to another. However, the WTS has not infrequently taken this idea and said, in no uncertain terms: Stay the course, stand your ground, and take whatever's coming to you...as a good Christian soldier should.

As a case in point: 2) Remember how Henschel went back, went back, when he could have escaped, and chose to suffer with his Malawi (?) brothers and sisters. It was presented in the WTS as a merit badge, a proof of true Christianity. (I looked for the reference on this, but couldn't find it...perhaps someone else can?)

Admittedly, my recollections and experiences are of the JW/Christian variety (possibly mutually exclusive terms), but then that's why I'm on this db to begin with, right?

Christians are masochists

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