Is Atheism/Evolutionism Dangerous? Questions for Unbelievers

by Perry 156 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  DanTheMan

  I've read a little about the relatively recent co-existence of homo sapiens and homo neanderthalis, and how this co-existence probably didn't exactly go too well for the latter. Am I "proud" of the fact that my apparently fitter ancient ancestors may have been a contributing factor in the disappearance of a competing species? No, but there's no use hiding from those facts. And my own competitive drives, which can be pretty fierce at times, confirm for me that I am possessive of genes that are capable of producing highly aggressive behavior. The guilt that arises from these competitive drives comes both from genes that produce social behavior and the socialization that we all undergo as children.

  Evolution is a fact, and it more than satisfactorily explains human behavior, even if the explanations are difficult for our sentimental western mind to accept. Whether or not humans can ultimately accept the truth of evolution is yet to be seen. I was raised in a religious household; my parents fully bought into the worldview espoused by the Catholic Church, not in an intellectual way but in a more simple or naive way. So of course my natural reaction to the truth of evolution is mix of revulsion and regret and wishing that it just wasn't so, but it is what it is.

  Those ancient Hebrews were a pretty murderous lot too ya know.
• 

  Perry

  Scully,

  Can you briefly state how those authors (or yourself) "know" when they are doing "good".
• 

  Perry

  Repeated.
• 

  LittleToe

  Scully:

  Atheism and/or humanism requires a great deal of self-awareness, being in touch with one's own values and ethics, and personal accountability for one's own actions. For example, I no longer abide by the JW euphemism to "wait on Jehovah" when I want to change something in my life. I take responsibility for figuring out what exactly needs to change, what steps are required to achieve that change, and putting the plan in action to effect the change that I want. I know that I cannot fall back on the "just following orders" excuse if I treat someone else poorly, or if I do something that goes against my own principles - I will have to live with the understanding that I caused harm to someone else, and that I don't get a do-over.

  That's little different from most believers. Unfortunately the cranks get the air time

  I agree with the rest of your comments.
• 

  hillary_step

  Perry,

  The Universe, which I presume you believe came about by the hand of God is a very dangerous place. This is what Narkissos hinted in his earlier post.

  The earth is populated with creatures who from the smallest microbe to the largest mammal have to eat other creatures in order to live. Nature is a killing ground where 'God' seems to have created animals to live lives in the deceit of camouflage, and often feed on their prey while still living just in order to keep existing.

  You cannot sidestep these facts and launch laterally into an argument that suggests that atheists and evolutionists are dangerous without attending to moral issue that I have noted above. You need to provide a moral ground on which to stand as it seems that your God has created a very, very dangerous world for us to to try survive in making your question moot in its present form.

  HS
• 

  Perry

  hillary-step said:

  You need to provide a moral ground on which to stand as it seems that your God has created a very, very dangerous world

  So, you're saying that I need to justify my own morality before I can make inquiry into others morality? Who says? By what authority? By what possible logic?

  I have already stated that there is no justification for my own morality as a believer in an all good benevolent God, since I fail. I compare that contradiction to the athiest contradiction of doing some "good" while acting (at least in part) in rebellion of or contra-expression to his violent ancestors who made his existence possible?

  Can you not see that there is a "justification principle" absent in both?

  How do you personally determine what is "good". How is it justified?
• 

  kid-A

  "Many people just do not connect with this heritage of violence that athiests maintain gives them freedom from religious servitude."

  > After laughing at the intellectual retardation of this statement for a solid 5 minutes, the only non-contrived response I can give is that the only "heritage of violence" on this planet belongs exclusively to you and your ilk, Perry, the evolutionarily stunted individuals who still persist in believing in some ridiculous, ancient sky-god created by wandering desert nomads 2000 years ago. Every single conflict on this planet is started and/or maintained by warring factions of "believers in god" whatever "brand" of religion it so happens to take.

  If you had even the remotest level of education in either evolutionary psychology or biology, you would be well aware of the fact that "morality" and the psychological constructs of "good" and "evil" have OBVIOUSLY evolved in the human brain for a reason.....the survival and perpetuation of the species, both collectively and individually. The evidence of hominid evolution is NOT one of violence and bloodshed. To the contrary, the earliest archaelogical evidence dating as far back as homo erectus finds evidence for social altruism amongst early humans, not too mention the evidence of con-specific altruism amongst early Neanderthal populations.

  You see, the difference between you and me Perry, is that I dont need some ridiculous fictional creature in the sky to tell me how to behave, to tell me how to be a decent human being. That information has already been instilled in my genetic code over millions of years of hominid evolution. An even more striking difference, is that I dont "expect" some "pie in the sky" reward for my efforts....I'm a good person because I know, logically, being fair and just to my fellow humans will lead to reciprocal actions on my behalf. Its how a society functions, its how human relationships function. You try to be good because you FEAR the wrath of some god if you break his "rules"...You try to be good IN ORDER to gain entry into your hypothetical "heavenly paradise", motivated by your fear of biological mortality. .I try to be good based upon intrinsically generated psychological traits and out of RESPECT for HUMANITY and the earth I live on and have evolved on.

  So, perhaps before speaking out of your ass, you should take the time to EDUCATE yourself about the real history of human evolution. While your at it, go to your local library and take out a book on the history of Western Civillization, and read up on the THOUSANDS of massacres, wars and inquisitions started and maintained by CHRISTIANS, your "peaceful" brothers in christ.

  "Many wonder if athiests have split personalities since there is such cognitive dissonance between what they believe is their origins and what they publically practice."

  I wonder who "many" are? Perhaps you and your little flock of worshippers? LOL....Funny the only "cognitive dissonance" I ever experienced was between the bullsh*t religious garbage I was force-fed growing up and the obvious empirical reality that there IS, in face, no silly sky-god in the clouds. The rest was "observational" as I watched the pitiful disconnect between what religionists self-righteously try to shove down other peoples throats in terms of their version of "morality" and what most of them, REALLY practice.....

  Regardless, thanks for the morning laugh Perry, it brightened my day in a special, special, way....LOL....
• 

  RAF

  my 2 cents?

  Believing in evolution is dangerous because it leads to believe that some people are more evoluate than others.
  
  Believing in God is believing that all of us are alike to some extant (we do evoluate physically to accomodate with our environement) and we are differents spirits (unic) it's interesting, it talks about diversity (but then, we have to deal with it too anyway and it can also be dangerous, because then it's all about who is better (physically, spiritually bla bla bla) so it's all about how is it possible to understand the other one? Do we really want to?. But the bible (the GOSPEL) for instance is not talking about who is better its about : take care (as much as you can).

  Now about evolution if one cell could lead to built the universe, the process would be exponential (more over if you take the example of the virus which is able to evolve a lot and very fast to stay alive - that being said it also have a problem which lead to be so effective that it forgets about the fact that if he takes too much advantage on his host it kills his host and by that kill himself - so any might take this detail as an argument to say that it is the reason why it is not exponential - but we human are able to make new species of plantes that the evolution process didn't think about it yet in billions of years) SO ...
• 

  TopHat

  skyking, What is that you said about so called christian warmongers?

  I believe you should have a look at modern day Atheist WARMONGERS.

  http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/pot.html
• 

  hillary_step

  Perry,

  So, you're saying that I need to justify my own morality before I can make inquiry into others morality? Who says? By what authority? By what possible logic?

  You have missed the point of my post.

  I am not asking you to justify your own morality, I am asking you to justify the morality of the God that you worship, who to your way of thinking has created a Universe that is a killing floor for the very creatures that he supposedly created and that seems to lack the very moral base that you seek to question in others.

  Can you not see this? Your question regarding atheism, and especially evolution is moot until a moral ground is substantiated regarding the issue that I have now noted twice.

  As to your question :

  How do you personally determine what is "good". How is it justified?

  As an evolutionist, I will just posit the phrase 'social conditioning'. You do not seem to understand the basic elements of evolution, for if you did you would not need to ask such questions.

  HS