Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  proplog2

  These threads never make it over 200 views. I only post them so there is an obscure record of my bizarre orientation.

  So this should be sinking pretty fast.
• 

  yaddayadda

  You make the error of your time-spans being too short. You're ignoring China. China will without a doubt be a new 'Northern' superpower...this eventuality is only 20 or 30 years away.
  
  Russia will not be a 'revived' king of the North acting alone. It will combine with China to create a brand new king of the north. The final 'beast' will be a Russian/Chinese combine. They are ideology aligned and both regimes are atheistic. This will be the anti-Christian (atheistic) 'beast' foretold in bible prophecy.
  
  A future Chinese/Russian (King of the North) combined worldsuperpower will be what topples the Anglo/American world power (King of the South). The third world war will be between these two opposed geopolitical ideologies. But it is still quite a few years away.
• 

  *jeremiah*

  Proplog,

  Can you tell me where the king of the north is mentioned in Daniel 8:23 or 8:25? I don't see that mentioned there.

  Also, I don't see how you can equate the words "stern-faced king" and say that is Putin or the words "understanding ambiguous sayings" and say that is former head of the KGB. I'm sorry,...but I think this is a major strectch and see no evidence in scripture.

  Once again,...let's look at scriptures in context starting at verse 15 because this is when the Lord interprets the whole thing for Daniel.

  And it came to pass when I, Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. So he [that is, Gabriel] came near to where I was standing (Dan 8:15-17):

  So the Lord sends Gabriel to explain the vision to Daniel.

  So he came near where I was standing: and I was afraid, and I fell on my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for the time of the end shall be the vision (Dan 8:17).

  Now this vision is going to take you out to the time of the end.

  Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. And he said, Behold, I will make you to know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. Now the ram which you saw having two horns (Dan 8:18-20),

  We don't need to question what is the ram, for he tells us.

  they are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Greece (Dan 8:20-21):

  And, of course, this is when Greece was nothing.

  and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Dan 8:21).

  Or Alexander the Great. That is the first king during the time of its conquering. Philip, Alexander's father did not conquer or begin any kind of a world conquest. That would be the first king in its conquering efforts.

  Now that being broken (Dan 8:22),

  Alexander dying at thirty-two years,

  whereas four stood up, there will be four kingdoms that will come out of the nation, but not in the power (Dan 8:22).

  Of Alexander the Great, which was true, and did happen. After Alexander's death, his kingdom was split into four and given to his generals.

  And the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressions are come to a full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty (Dan 8:23-24),

  And this

  , of course, is referring now to the antichrist.

  but not by his own power (Dan 8:24):

  We read in Revelation 13 that this beast that rises out of the sea that Satan gives unto him his authority and his power. So this man of sin is going to arise; he's going to be tremendously powerful, but not his own power. It will be Satan's power that will be vested in him. All of the power of Satan will be given unto man, this man. "His power will be mighty, but not by his own power."

  and he shall destroy awesomely, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people (Dan 8:24).

  He's gonna make war against Israel, ultimately.

  And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace will he destroy many (Dan 8:25):

  He's gonna come on with a program of peace. And be hailed, really, as the savior of the world.

  he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without a hand (Dan 8:25).

  The brightness of the coming of Jesus Christ with the word that goes forth out of the mouth of Christ, the antichrist will be broken and destroyed without a hand touching him.

  And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days (Dan 8:26).

  Just close it because it isn't pronounced for the future.

  And I Daniel fainted, and I was sick for certain days, and afterward I rose up, and I did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it (Dan 8:27).

  It was all before the fact. No one understood it, he just wrote it. And, of course, that's an interesting thing. "Man, I don't understand it. This is weird you know, but this is what it was, you know." Now we look at it, we say, "Wow, that's so clear! Man, that's interesting how he could write with such clarity things that had not happened, you know." But that's because we're looking at it from this standpoint and we can see where it was fulfilled. Whereas Daniel, "Who, Grecia? Man, that little area of Grecia? Well, it's over there, you know. How can they ever destroy the Persian Empire?" And yet, in time it all was fulfilled.

  As you get into the ninth chapter of the book of Daniel, I think that it does possess, really, the key to the understanding of all of prophecy. If you understand the ninth chapter of the book of Daniel, the whole subject of prophecy will become very clear to you. If you're garbled on the ninth chapter of the book of prophecy, your whole prophetic picture will be garbled. The ninth chapter is the key to the understanding of the subject of prophecy.

  So, Proplog,...once again I think you are trying to place the king of the north into scripture where he doesn't exist.

  The scriptures you gave me, Dan 8:23-25, speak of the Antichrist. There is no king of the north even mentioned in Daniel chapter 8.
• 

  Warlock

  If the USSR had won the cold war, do you really think Putin would be crying about there being only one world power on the Earth? I DOUBT IT!

  Warlock
• 

  mia_b

  In connection with this the role of multilateral
  diplomacy is significantly increasing. The need
  for principles such as openness, transparency and
  predictability in politics is uncontested and the use of force should be a really exceptional
  measure, comparable to using the death penalty in
  the judicial systems of certain states.
  However, today we are witnessing the opposite
  tendency, namely a situation in which countries
  that forbid the death penalty even for murderers
  and other, dangerous criminals are airily
  participating in military operations that are
  difficult to consider legitimate. And as a matter
  of fact, these conflicts are killing people ­
  hundreds and thousands of civilians!

  I like that quote proplog - especially as uk is non death penalty but quite happy in iraq and afghanistan

  hmmm 148 views so far!
• 

  *jeremiah*

  The USA has a kingdom (hegemony) over the kings of the earth. Revelation 17:18

  Once again,...I have to disagree with your above statement. Without going into great detail,...I'll keep this brief:

  And he saith unto me, The waters which you saw, where the whore is sitting, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw upon the beast, these shall hate the whore (Rev 17:15-16),

  These kings that shall give their power to the beast, the antichrist, they take advantage of the church, but now they turn against this false religious system or "whore".

  and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will (Rev 17:16-17),

  and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which you saw is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth (Rev 17:17-18).

  The woman/ great city will be the antichrist's false religious system. Yet, eventually, he turns on her and destroys her when he no longer needs her.

  So, the beast is the antichrist who will have the support of ten kings. The whore, the great prostitute, the woman riding the beast is a false religion system.
• 

  proplog2

  Jeremiah:

  The word anti-christ is not used in Daniel.

  I agree with the idea that if a pair of events is similar in their descriptive wording and dramatic roles, similar in action, similar in sequence and similar in results, we should probably think of the events as the same event.

  Little Horn	King of North	Wild Beast
  Dan 8:25 "Against the Prince of princes he will stand up"	Dan 11:36 "Against the God of Gods he will speak marvelous things."	Rev. 13:6 "And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence"
  Dan 8:24 "And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will certainly bring mighty ones to ruin."	Dan 11:39 "And he will act effectively against the most fortified strongholds"	Rev 13:4 "Who is like the wild beast and who can do battle with it."
  Dan 8:11 "and from him the CONSTANT FEATURE was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down...and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."	Dan 11:36 "and he will certainly prove successful until the DENUNCIATION will have come to a finish."	Rev 13:7 "And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones... And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it."
• 

  proplog2

  Jeremiah:

  I have given a lot of thought to the error of believing that Babylon the Great is a religious entity. Please read the following thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/123016/1.ashx
• 

  needproof

  Proplog, I too am an atheist. And, like you, I still believe the Bible has some kind of message.
• 

  Jourles

  What happens when we(everyone on this board) all die from natural causes, 200 years pass by, our great, great, great, great grandchildren will be living on this earth and the question of who is the KotN, Wild Beast, et al, is still lingering in the air?

  Everyone living during THEIR generation feels that the end of the world will happen while they are still alive. I've come to realize the fact that nothing the WTS has taught me(or any other apocalyptic group which says the end is just around the corner) in the past will come true during my lifetime, if ever. I'm just a guy who happened to be born in 1973 in San Diego, CA and is now living in Lansing, Michigan 34 years later. If I stay pretty healthy up into my 70's and 80's, I'll be happy. If there is some deity out there that has other plans for the earth before I die, then so be it.

  But I do agree with Putin over the fact that the USA's military presence is making the world less safe. How many other countries have multi-national military bases on par with the USA? And why does the USA feel they need to be the bully in the schoolyard world police? Global domination by one single country makes me sick - especially when I am a citizen of that country and am associated with it wherever I go internationally.