saved at a Promise Keepers convention

by Princess 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Vienna

  Last post on this thread: I'm not posting to change anyone's beliefs and you're not going to change mine--that's not my or anyone else's job (holy spirit). And if you notice, the JWs aren't the only ones with a Bible--that was 'round a long time before they were and will be after they're gone. They didn't write the Bible so get over the 'sounding like a JW' blab. Shocker, I know...but they didn't. It's hard to believe. Let's move on.

  Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

  The earth is here and there is an expanse outside of it for a reason. And don't give me the 'big bang' and other theories, because it doesn't stick in the slightest.

  (edited typo)
• 

  Mulan

  Well, I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs either. Is that what you thought? I am only chatting here. And, who said I didn't believe in God? Did anyone else here say that? Don't be so touchy.

  Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
  "Those who know, don't say, and those who say, don't know."
• 

  Yerusalyim

  MegaDude,

  You said,
  

  I do know that Jesus could have cared less about the mountain of doctrine that his church had back in his day. Didn't he say, love God with your whole heart, mind and soul, and love your brother as yourself? That's real Christianity in my opinion.

  
  When Jesus said this he was quoting Dueteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18. He wasn't creating a new theology or doctrine, he was reminding the Jews of the CORE DOCTRINE of their faith. Upon these two commandments hinged all 613 Commandments God gave to the Jewish people. Jesus was saying REMEMBER THE BASICS, Which is something too many of us have forgotten.

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  Rex B13

  Hi Princess,

  >That is utter nonsense. Your god is not a loving god if that is how he treats his followers. I want no part of a god who sees fit to save a few while allowing the rest to die. (WTC)

  Uh, do you actually read anything posted to you or just skim to look for things you don't like?

  >It makes no sense at all that only those who hear the call will feel the need to be saved, but some will never hear the call. Thus, never had a shot?

  Try a little actual reading of the book of Romans, get a good commentary and dig in. You keep asking questions that have nothing to do with salvation (which is simple: we are saved by grace through faith), you then want a one minute answer to theological issues that REQUIRE study time to understand.+
  Rex
• 

  Rex B13

  >Nothing seems to offend her so don't worry yourself with pity for her.

  Princess

  Your attitude is the problem too. Why would you want to offend her anyways? Women seem to love verbal cruelty toward one another.
  
  >Princess is right about this girl. She is desperately trying to make us see her version of Jesus. I'm sorry, but I just don't see him that way. To me, he died for all men, not just the "militant" Christians. And I'm not even sure I believe that, but that's what the Bible says. Let's not add anything to what it actually says, okay?
  Mulan

  "To me" is really not the point. The point is what does scripture say? Who added anything to the Bible?
  It also seems as if the two of you are really ganging up on your brother's/sons' wife, simply by your attitudes here....If I am wrong then I apologize but at least give her credit for doing something that she thinks would benefit you.
  So you experienced a cult. Big deal, we all have here. Instead of skimming the surface beliefs and saying 'it's all the same', try actually looking into a subject before you blow it off.

  >SaintSatan, that is exactly what I was saying: the acrobatics they all go through, to claim their own special brand of salvation. It's all so nauseating, and familiar. Thank you.
  
  What 'acrobatics'? The gospel is simple. However, when we are dealing with people who have been taught slander about real Chrsitianity there is lot to unlearn. Plus, a theological issue can be very difficult to explain in this type of setting. For instance, we were speaking of election, which has a 'calvinist' view and an 'arminian' view, both teach some amount of free will is involved in the 'calling' but the calvinist view is actually better supported by scripture.
  Rex
• 

  Princess

  I accept your apology as you are wrong.

  Arrogant too, you expected me to read your book. The questions could have been answered simply IN YOUR OWN WORDS, but you decided to cut and paste someone elses. Whatever. I already know what I believe, I just wanted you to back up what you said. You tried to save me.

  I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to ask questions unrelated to salvation. Someone forgot to tell me that.

  Princess
• 

  Rex B13

  Princess,
  What, I am arrogant because I press the issue? Maybe you are afraid that I am correct, as is your sister-in-law who is trying to help you and your mother? You know what? I see the JW and ex-JW attitudes toward those who are 'born again', the sneering contempt born of Watchtower teachings doesn't die easily.
  Your are just trying to weasel out of your own laziness. I posted information from MY RESEARCH that I have posted here before, so quit claiming it is a 'cut and paste' as if it is some method of cheating. You are just fogging the issue.
  I posted scripture used as a general guideline to show the gospel to those who don't know it. It speaks for itself as it is in context to the question of salvation. There are only two types of souls left at judgement: the lost, who will suffer eternal separation from God according to their deeds; the saved, who are found in the book of life and will be judged (with rewards) as to their deeds.
  Salvation is solely determined by your free will action to the gospel; accept or reject.
  That is the white throne judgement of Revelation. Forget your JW or New Age ideas of 'we're all good and we all go to the same place', you are being lied to if someone claims it is biblical.
  I posted plenty of scriptural proof for the immortal soul, you ignore it, so be it.
  Rex
• 

  Rex B13

  Princess asked:
  >Rex, you never answered my question about why you have to understand Jesus claimed to be god in order to attain salvation.

  NIV John 6:35-48
  35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.
  36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
  37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

  Jesus Himself offers redemption; He is one with the Father (who is God); salvation is eternal (37); the Father draws those ones (37) and that's for FunkyDerek.

  38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
  39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

  Again, eternal salvation. Again, Christ's will is God's (the Father) will and we know that Christ has emptied Himself (from Phil. 2.6-11, look it up in a reputable translation); Again, eternal salvation (39).
  
  40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

  Recognition of Christ's deity is part and parcel with Salvation!

  41 At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
  42 They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, `I came down from heaven'?"
  43 "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered.
  44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
  45 It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

  More statements showing Jesus making the claim that He is God, yet not God the Father, clearly separate persons. Again, the Father draws and God the Son teaches, 'comes to me'; to be taught by God!
  Christ also say, 'I will raise him up on the last day', which is only something that God can do!

  46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
  47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
  48 I am the bread of life.

  More confirmation of the facts above. Jesus did in fact, claim to be God, yet He claimed to be a separate person from God (the Father).

  NIV John 8:56-59
  56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
  57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
  58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
  59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

  The crowning confirmation that Christ did indeed claim to be God and the pharisees reaction to this claim!

  KJV John 8:24-29
  24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

  Do you believe that Christ is God? No? You shall 'die in your sins'; without salvation.

  25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
  26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

  Again, this shows that without Christ you 'die in your sins', which is a metaphor for 'eternal damnation' and this is consistent in all New Testament scripture, 'death' is 'eternal damnation'.

  27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
  28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,

  "I am he" is another confirmation that Jesus is Yahweh, almighty God.

  > and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
  29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

  The subordination of Christ (the Son, voluntarily from Phil 2.6-11 and Heb. 1.1-10) to God the Father and again their 'oneness' is displayed in an obvious fashion.

  You see, Princess? I did not have to cut and paste, now did I?
  Rex