thanks blondie
paragraph 11 had me
Comments You Will Not Hear At the 2-18-07 WT Study (1st Resurrection)
by blondie 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
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zarco
Blondie,
Great work on establishing that the "annointed" likely number far more than 144,000. Over 90,000 in 1925 is an amazing number when one considers the early christain numbers, the number of annointed ones through the ages and those who became so after 1925.
I have wondered about this question for some time. Thanks for your thoughts on the issue.
zarco
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IMHO
With reference to your quotes from the January 1, 2007 Watchtower page 30 and 31 - one is talking about Armageddon and the other about the Great Tribulation.
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pixel
Thanks Blondie. (I'm I love Blondie, specially "Maria" from their CD "No Exit".
I find this quote from the The Watchtower, May 1, 1934 p. 131; J. F. Rutherford, Jehovah, (Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower, Bible & Tract Society) 1934 p. 191. really interesting (From the link you gave):
"All at the temple will realize that their spiritual food comes to them from their Teachers, Jehovah and Christ Jesus, and not from any man. No one will be so foolish as to conclude that some brother (or brethren) at one time amongst them, and who has died and gone to heaven, is now instructing the saints on earth and directing them as to their work."
And now they say that some annointed are delivering lights to identify the Great Crowd. It seems like that "annointed", whoever he might be, perhaps Rutherford or Russell, or Knorr or Franz, or, or, or is TEACHING.
It's AMAZING how these people behave. Gosh this GB is crazy!
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TopHat
Thanks Blondi, this WT study should open a few eyes of thinking JWs
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heathen
This one definately coulda come with a gag alert . What is with all that speculaton ? They claim not to speculate . More catch phrases to look for and why can't they just say, in our opinion we see it this way, whenever they aren't sure ? Yah the dead anointed "may" have been communicating bible truths , well so might space aliens from planet mental masturbation. Gee since jesus was resurrected three and half years after his anointment suddenly means we have to look at 1918 as a date for the first resurrection. There is nothing in the bible to support that assumption.
BTW the day when all wickedness is destroyed on earth is called " The great fear inspiring day of GOD ALMIGHTY", not armageddon .I'm still convinced armageddon is the name for the spiritual war between the seeds where the saints are martyred for their faith . So they are actually casualties of the war .
In some ways this study was leaning toward a confession of the "anointed" experiencing super natural communication but they still won't go all the way and state any sort of visions or prophesy that they experience .
I'm sure I had more points to make but that'll do for now. Good work again blondie .
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blondie
With reference to your quotes from the January 1, 2007 Watchtower page 30 and 31 - one is talking about Armageddon and the other about the Great Tribulation.
Of course, the WTS teaches that the GT starts with the destruction of Babylon the Great and ends with Armageddon, so Armageddon is actually part of or a subset of the GT. So their statements are confusing, perhaps intentionally so. The WTS has also taught that some of the anointed would live through Armageddon, perhaps to assist the great crowd.
*** w90 8/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?
Pointedly, the Bible does not say...
The Bible does not say that this will occur, yet certain patterns and prophecies have been taken to indicate that it might.
As Noah led his wife and their three sons and daughters-in-law through the end of that ancient system, Christ will provide leadership for the remnant of his bride class and those who become children of the "Eternal Father," Jesus. Noah’s wife survived the Flood and shared in the renewing of true worship on a cleansed earth. A parallel might be the survival into the new world of a remnant of the bride class.—Isaiah 9:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:2, 9.
In the book of Revelation, immediately after John tells of God’s executing the religious harlot, Babylon the Great, he describes "the marriage of the Lamb." A filthy, immoral "woman" is removed from the scene, and we see "the bride, the Lamb’s wife" ‘arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, which stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.’ (Revelation 18:10; 19:2, 7, 8; 21:9) The destruction of Babylon the Great is part of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:14) So it could be reasoned that some of the bride class will survive the great tribulation as evidence of Jehovah’s approval and protection. (Zephaniah 2:3; compare Matthew 24:22.) If they are thus preserved on earth, they could remain here until God chooses to take them to heaven.
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So actually, the WTS walks on both sides of the question, giving itself wiggle room when things don't work out.
I have yet to find a definite answer in the WT publications that all the anointed will be in heaven when the marriage of the Lamb takes place. Can the marriage take place without all the anointed in heaven?
*** w96 1/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
All eagerly look forward to the heavenly "marriage of the Lamb." The Bible links that marriage to the time of the approaching great tribulation—the destruction of Babylon the Great, and then the elimination of the rest of Satan’s system.—Revelation 18:2-5; 19:2, 7, 11-21; Matthew 24:21.
[Marriage Lamb When\w95 Christian Witnesses With Heavenly Citizenship]
*** w95 7/1 p. 13 par. 19 Christian Witnesses With Heavenly Citizenship ***
In another vision John hears faithful, resurrected, anointed Christians referred to as ‘the Lamb’s wife.’ What a warm picture this paints of the intimacy they will enjoy with Jesus and of their willing subjection to him! Picture the joy in heaven when the last of them finally receives his heavenly reward. Now, at last, "the marriage of the Lamb" can take place! That royal heavenly organization will then be complete.—Revelation 19:6-8.
[Marriage Lamb When\w93 Deliverance at the Revelation of Jesus Christ]*** w93 5/1 p. 26 par. 18 Deliverance at the Revelation of Jesus Christ ***
Just when the anointed yet remaining on earth will receive their heavenly resurrection is not stated. But we are assured in the context here that their sharing in the marriage of the Lamb, Christ Jesus, will be a happy time, and all the more so since they will have witnessed firsthand the humiliation of the infamous harlot, Babylon the Great.
[Marriage Lamb When\w92 Jehovah’s Provision, the .Given Ones.]
*** w92 4/15 p. 17 par. 22 Jehovah’s Provision, the "Given Ones" ***
Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ‘sealed ones’ will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8)
[Marriage Lamb When\w90 Questions From Readers]
*** w90 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***Accordingly, God could take his anointed ones to heaven immediately after the destruction of Babylon the Great, setting the stage for "the marriage of the Lamb" to occur. All the holy ones could thus share with Christ in ‘shepherding the nations with an iron rod’ in the remainder of the great tribulation. (Revelation 2:26, 27; 19:11-21)
[Marriage Lamb When\w89 The Infamous Harlot-Her Destruction]
*** w89 4/15 p. 16 par. 18 The Infamous Harlot—Her Destruction ***
For with the completed resurrection of the 144,000 to heaven, the marriage of the Lamb takes place.
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hamsterbait
Para 11 is TOSH!
In the SYMBOLIC Revelation (Which only Church Tradition ascribes to John - as admitted in the AId book)
How can a person resurrected in 1919 or after, reveal a truth to a first century writer?
My Whole take on this issue now is that if the Apostles didn't teach it, apply Galatians 1:8.
Blondie - thanks so much for this week it helped me keep my resolve. I was on the emotional cusp of a "try harder to love Jehovah " campaign. So often in the past these have led to misery and/or heartbreak.
HB
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heathen
Hog wash once again . Revelation is clear that the last of the brothers of christ has to die by the ax before the great tribulation begins . Man they are so shifty on that as well . They did say the tribulaton started and then took a break and would start agian at some point . They do seem to be changing the symbolic death to a literal one in this past article . Revs 20:4 Notice the 144k don't come to life until the devil is abyssed in vrs.5 Unbelievable how they can get so far away from what the bible says and claim they are only telling the same way the bible says it . They are clearly just trying to confuse people to the point they give up trying to understand the bible but only focus on WTBTS dogma. I also agree that it is completely insane for them to keep saying the great crowd was identified in 1935 . Most of those people are dead and will not survive the GT into the millenial reign , so how the hell can they be the GC?
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pixel
I just finished my "Family study", and my mom was soooo confused on this about John talking to a guy that is not yet resurrected, that she said: 'Wait a minute, was Revelation written after1914?"
Damn the GB! because of their speculation my mom is confused and talking nonsense!!