Comments You Will Not Hear At the 2-18-07 WT Study (1st Resurrection)

by blondie 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • bobld
    bobld

    Enjoyed your review thanks Blondie.

    I was going over this study with a JW.I cannot belief their way of thinking.Ex. Q10/11 I said isn't this spiritism or spiritualism.The reply was how do you think the preaching work accomplished.Also the WT is spirit directed and the FDS is spirit directed I have no problem with that.However,I did not mention other religion feel the same way.

    Just one other point, what about all the anionted before 1914 how were they slaughtered and their blood on the alter for their zealous witnessing.

    Bob

  • ?me?
    ?me?

    first, blondie, your posts are in general some of the best on the whole board. and the weekly study post is always incredible.

    ok, i am still very active in the cong.(well i attend pretty regularly) and i have been in the truth for over a decade and maybe it is just me, but i stopped even trying to actually understand the WTS or anybodies explanation of the events of revelations. maybe i am a bad guy, but my cynical view is whatever happens happens. jehovah is going to do whatever he wants and it really does not matter if i TRY to decipher it now. i think i like to take the general points and work with them, but to actually try to acribe alot of the imagery and phrases seems meaningless to humans

    and the WTS explanation that all the "7 seal, trumpet blasts, the wild beast, etc "all somehow mix and weave into the WTS's early history seems like totally a joke. yeah, Jehovah prophesied that 12 brothers would be arrested in the 20th century.

    one final note. the change in the watchtower format will just mean that we will have to post scans of the wt every week on the internet

    me

  • jeanV
    jeanV

    thanks blondie, excellent as usual. i just have a small favour to ask, as some of us in europe are having our meeting on saturday, maybe you could post your reviews a few hours earlier so that we have them before the study. if it is not too much hassle, otherwise do not worry.

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    It is good to see how far my Watchtower has gone. I must be the same as a God today among my followers!

    I'm excited to hear from you Pastor Russell! I am very much interested to know how my grandmother is doing. She was one of the anointed. Don't feel comfortable giving her name right now, but from your exalted position in the heavens, I am sure you know. Is it possible that she could be helping communicate divine truths to the anointed still on earth right now? Wouldn't it be a "loving provision" if she could communicate with me directly? Does she do email? I didn't know the Internet stretched all the way to heaven. P.S. ET call home.

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    I just finished my "Family study", and my mom was soooo confused on this about John talking to a guy that is not yet resurrected, that she said: 'Wait a minute, was Revelation written after 1914?"

    Pixel - Clyde just came up with a logical answer for your mother:

    In order to help you mother understand the "spiritual" revelation given to John, we must be "cognizant" of the "loving provision" of the revelation given to John. This revelation of one of the 24 elders talking to John was brought about by John being transformed "spiritually speaking" of course into the Lord's day. And who was there better to understand what John would want to know than John himself? Therefore it would "appear" and one could "surmise" that John is really talking to John himself. This should not surprise us as many brothers in Bethel have been noticed talking to themselves.

    Question on above paragraph: Who was John talking to?

    I am also available to write articles for the Watchtower.
  • inbyathread
    inbyathread

    published by Jehovah’s Witnesses—the inside cover of the WT itself says, "The Watchtower is published semi-monthly by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc." With a copyright assigned to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania" not a mention of Jehovah’s Witnesses anywhere.

    So beginning 1 Jan 2008 this should change? The Watchtower (Public edition) is published monthly.

    One CO made the grandiose comment about the WT being the most printed magazine. Exceeded Readers Digest and TV guide and all the rest. I guess he won't be able to make that comment anymore.

    Again. A great job Blondie. Looking forward to a 30 degree day so I can wash the salt from my car.

    Take Care and Stay Warm.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    It would not do to think too deeply about today's study - a dub could think himself out of the "truth"

    p 7 "God also grants them immortality. That is not something they possess from birth, as if a so-called immortal soul were breathed into them. "This which is mortal must put on immortality"

    If there is no existence between death and this moment, what is it that God resurrects? is it the same person? or a copy? I do not understand.

    12) At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God's Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility

    What parallel? I do not see anything in that.. I think it is pure conjecture

    14)At its base are "the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have." (Revelation 6:9) Since "the soul [or, life] of the flesh is in the blood," what is really represented as being at the foot of the altar is the blood of faithful servants of Jesus who were slaughtered because of their bold and zealous witnessing.-Leviticus 17:11.

    But my Bible says "souls" underneath the altar??

    17When the time for divine judgment arrives, the "rest" will be over. (Revelation 7:3) At that time, those resurrected ones will share with the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing destruction upon the wicked, including those who shed the blood of innocent Christians.-2 Thessalonians 1: 7-10.

    Go for it Granny!! I always suspected that you wanted to beat the hell out of unbelievers....

    I was going to mention the apparent contradiction between pages 30 & 31 re. the anointed surviving Armageddon, but Blondie already covered that ..Thanks for your research Blondie, glad you are feeling better..

    Go figure??

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    To think that I used to be the watchtower conductor, ugh! I am so glad that I don't have to do it anymore. Thanks Blondie for all your hard work even when you are not feeling well you give of yourself. It just boggles the mind the way the watchtower continues to go where no man / woman has gone before. They have no idea what Revealation is all about. Could of , should of, might of , maybe, perphaps, used to be. Let me tell you this about that, and so forth and so on. I just can't comment on this anymore.

    Blueblades

  • Mary
    Mary

    The sheer stupidity of those writing these articles is rarely more apparent than when it comes to their bizarre explanation of the resurrection.

    1) " THE living are conscious that they will die." Ever since Adam sinned, that has been true. Throughout history, everyone born has known that he would eventually die, and many have wondered: `What comes next? What is the condition of the dead?' The Bible answers: "As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all."-Ecclesiastes 9:5.

    This, of course, is the cornerstone of the WT's assumption that nothing happens to a person when they die. They take this scripture in Ecclesiates as literal and at face value. If that's the case, why do they not do the same thing with Eccesiates 10:19 that tells us that money is the answer to everything? "... Bread is for the laughter of the workers, and wine itself makes life rejoice; but money is what meets a response in all things...." or Ecclesiates 12:7 that tells us: "The greatest vanity!" said the congregator, "Everything is vanity." To take these verses in Ecclesiates as literal, we would be forced to draw the conclusion that nothing matters in life and that money is the most important thing in the world. Ecclesiastes 1:9 ". . .That which has come to be, that is what will come to be; and that which has been done, that is what will be done; and so there is nothing new under the sun. 10Does anything exist of which one may say: "See this; it is new"? "

    One need only look at the progress of mankind in the last 3,000 years to realize that the above scripture cannot be taken at face value.

    Eccl 1:11 "...There is no remembrance of people of former times, nor will there be of those also who will come to be later. There will prove to be no remembrance even of them among those who will come to be still later on...."

    Again, it's obvious that this is being told from a human (and extremely negative point of view) as we certainly DO have a remembrance of those who lived and died long ago and even those who have died recently. It almost makes me wonder if Solomon was bi-polar or manic-depressive when he wrote Ecclesiastes, as for the most part, it's a real downer of a book. Therefore, it's obvious that Eccl. 9:5 cannot be taken literally.

    4) The majority of those who are resurrected will come back to an earth made peaceful under God's Kingdom. (Psalm 37:10,11, 29; Isaiah 11:6-9; 35:5, 6; 65:21-23)

    The fact that they cannot provide one-single-scripture from the New Testament to back up this doctrine, should be a red flag for everyone reading the WT.

    God also grants them immortality. That is not something they possess from birth, as if a so-called immortal soul were breathed into them. "This which is mortal must put on immortality," says Paul. Immortality is a gift from God, "put on" by those who share in the first resurrection.-1 Corinthians 15:50, 53;

    There are dozens of scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation that indicate otherwise. I noticed that they didn't include the preceding verses in 1 Corinthians that says: "...It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written:"The first man Adam became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual...."

    Certainly sounds like it's saying we have a physical AND a spiritual body to me.

    8) Only 144,000 share in the first resurrection. Jehovah began selecting them at Pentecost 33 C.E., shortly after he resurrected Jesus. All of them have "[Jesus'] name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads." (Revelation 14:1, 3) Hence, they are not selected from many different religions.

    What I find amazing about this wild assumption, is that the Christians in the 1st Century CE certainly did not believe that only 144,000 were going to heaven, as this is only mentioned in the book of Revelation, decades after the congregation had first been formed and began to take off. From the earliest writings, it's plain to see that the assumption was that ALL those who believed in Christ would be going to heaven, not only a select few. With the exception of the WTS's extremely selective interpretation of Revelation, there is absolutely nothing in the bible to indicate that only 144,000 people go to heaven.

    Q9) How do Revelation 12:7 and 17:14 help us to approximate the time when the first resurrection begins?.....First, look at Revelation chapter 12. There we read that the newly enthroned Jesus Christ, along with his holy angels, wages war against Satan and his demons......Notice, though, that none of Christ's anointed followers are said to be with Jesus in that heavenly war.

    It also doesn't mention Jehovah, Gabriel, or the "myraids" of angels either. Does that mean they're not in heaven? For that matter, this particular verse doesn't even mention Jesus; it says "Michael and his angels battled". Since it's not too difficult to prove that Michael and Jesus are not one and the same, are we to assume that because this particular scripture doesn't mention Jesus, that he's not in heaven? God, I'm starting to get a headache.......

    The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.* (Footnote: * For information on how we know that the 24 elders represent anointed Christians in their heavenly position, see Revelation-Its Grand Climax At Hand! page 77, published by Jehovah's Witnesses.) (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 4:4) John himself had a heavenly hope; but since he was still a man on earth when the elder spoke to him, in the vision John must represent anointed ones on earth who have not yet received their heavenly reward.

    I think whoever came up with this brainiac interpretation should've been checked into a re-hab center. So the 24 elders is a symbolic number that 'represents a literal number of anointed Christians in their heavenly position, but they're talking to John, who's part of this group at the same time? Is that truly the best they could come up with? Many scholars believe that the 24 elders represent the entire church. Still others believe the twenty-four elders to be angelic creatures of some sort - seraphim or cherubim or another group that we simply know nothing about. Whatever the case, the Bible simply does not give us enough information about the identity of the twenty-four elders and the WTS should just say "we're not sure".

    Q12) Explain why the spring of 1918 may be viewed as a possible time for the first resurrection to begin..........12) At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel.

    Translation: We seriously have not a clue what we're talking about, but that's never stopped us before....and BTW, if any of you questions this, you'll be DF'd for apostasy.

    Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God's Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918?

    Depends on how much dope you smoke. If it's enough, then sure, anything's possible. But seeing as it can easily be proven that Jesus did not 'Return' in 1914, then the entire point is moot.

    Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible

    The only true statement made in the entire study article.

    13) For example, Paul wrote: "We the living who survive to the presence of the Lord [not, to the end of his presence]

    Uh, when exactly does his 'presense' end? Don't they teach that once he returned in 1914, He'll be ruling forever? Yet another dumb statement that I'm sure very few who are sitting there today will even question. Or understand.

    Excellent summary Blondie. I think that you and I should get together one day, attend a local Kingdumb Hall, put up our hands and point out the inconsistencies in their teachings. Something tells me they'll be making cement shoes for us before the study is over.

  • pixel
    pixel

    From paragraph 8: Hence, they are not selected from many different religions.

    If I'm not wrong, Russell died and many others believing in the cross and some other beliefs that you can get Df'd for if you belive in them right now, so, THAT would make him part of the "different religions" that they are talking about. I guess that when all that people were resurected and went to heaven, some angel or other annointed that got resurrected first said: "Come on over Russell/others, I will give you a Bible study to show you how things really are, because you were teaching nonsense down there on earth"

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