A sin against the Holy Spirit... (page 2)

Paralipomenon

The best I can remember is your heart condition at your death.

If you come to an intimate knowledge of Jehovah's organization and turn away and actively preach against it that is the ultimate sin. It can be forgiven as long as you are alive, but if you die in that mindset you will not be part of the resurrection since you have came to know God and denied him.

I'm not up on all the new lights so that teaching may have changed in the past decade.

Stealth453

There is no answer to your question. Sin against the holy spirit is, and has always been, the watchliar's special weapon. Scares the shit out of the r&f, and keeps all the little book salesmen in line.

heathen

Yah , I think the WTBTS even made so if you didn't follow an elders instructions you were speaking against the spirit . It's pretty obvious that the WTBTS itself speaks against the spirit whenever they condemn people for pointing out a falsehood or publish one of their dogma that is contrary to the facts or truth . The bible does condemn false prophets , big time.

JosephMalik

Can someone explain just exactly what that DOES mean. I was never able to get a straight answer from anyone--it was just some sort of horrible thing a person might do that would never, ever be forgiven.

Threestars,

What the scriptures are calling Holy Spirit can also be called conscience as it is a gift from God obtained prematurely in violation of His instructions to us. This is something we all inherited from Adam and Eve. Not only did we get our life from them but: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This is why shortly afterward we learn: 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

This allegory sums up for us the situation we are all in right up to the present. This gift was intended for us but only when we were ready for it. This is also why Matt: 25:31 to 46 teaches that only decent human beings called sheep will be selected from all mankind that ever lived to be in the Kingdom. Religion will not be the determining factor, only how we have treated others will determine our ultimate fate.

Joseph

zack

To sin against the holy spirit. To sin means to miss the mark. So in what way does a person miss the mark of God's spirit? The spirit works out the will

of God. The will of God is that all men may attain to repentance and be reconciled to him. His spirit actively works towards that end: repentance.

Once a person repents and is reconciled to God, the scriptures say he is given "the free gift." In other words, the sonship to God. If one fights the will of God then

one does NOT WANT what God wills, which is repentance. That is the

sin against the holy spirit (imho), not sinning in weakness or in ignorance, but in DEFIANCE.

heathen

Some good points there . Jesus did say that if you don't feed ,cloth and visit his brothers in jail then you are condemned as well.

Also zack made a point , the bible does say once you are born again and if you return to your previous life style and jesus arrives to inspect , you are once again condemned . The apostle Paul also had a list of people not inheriting the kingdom , 1 corinthians 6

Narkissos

Stepping back from narrow theological concerns, I find interesting that in the Synoptic context "sin against the spirit" is linked with dogmatic dualism and exclusivism -- if I am right you must be wrong, hence your god must be the devil... That makes it a pretty frequent one, especially in religious circles.

This is in line with the fact that this "sin" is consistently called blasphemy -- or slander. A "sin" of the logos, language and logic. This is the case even in GThomas 44f which lacks the previous Synoptic setting, but includes the "Father" along the Son and has the same sequel about "fruits = words".

Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."
Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorn trees, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they yield no fruit.
Good persons produce good from what they've stored up; bad persons produce evil from the wickedness they've stored up in their hearts, and say evil things. For from the overflow of the heart they produce evil."

The Matthean addition is also worth noting (12:36):

I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

frankiespeakin

What a clever mindcontrol device to keep the faithful ever vigilent towards any contrary thought about the miracles claimed to have been done by Christ as taught by the leaders of that group of christians.

JosephMalik

The Matthean addition is also worth noting (12:36):

I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

Narkissos,

By speaking we influence others. This is especially critical regarding doctrinal or religiouse things that may implact severely on another persons life like blood transfusions for example or partaking at the memorial. The thought is the same as to how we treat others since God and Christ exempt themselves as you have shown. The point is one of identification. The identification of who? This is a way to identify a good or evil person. That is why the verse you use is preceeded by this:

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Joseph

Threestars

Thanks everyone for your input. It appears that 1) My goose is totally cooked according to the borg!!!. 2) The WBTS has skillfully continued to use this concept to inspire fear in would-be free thinkers. 3) No poets, musicians, or painters will get into the new system.

I always fretted over this "sin". My Dad had committed adultery repeatedly and had been reinstated and he was mean to my Mother, but, thankfully, he had never "sinned against the Holy Spirit."

All those old farts in the governing body can bite me!. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches.

A sin against the Holy Spirit...

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