JW's participate in Government talks with other religious bodies!

by Atlantis 40 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Atlantis

  (Please delete if already posted)

  http://www.online.ie/Home/News.aspx?newsId=636132

  Religious bodies in talks with Government

  26/02/07 | 17:45

  Ground-breaking talks between the Government and religious bodies began in Dublin today. The Taoiseach and Tánaiste welcomed representatives of the main Christian churches, as well as Jewish and Muslim leaders to a ceremony in Dublin Castle this afternoon. The Government aims to create an inclusive relationship with all denominations and creeds during forthcoming bilateral discussions. "The Government wants to inaugurate a new departure and an open dialogue with all denominations that is respectful of every faith and that is equally mindful of those who profess none," Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said. The talks are intended to reflect the increasingly diverse range of faith communities in Ireland and were first mooted by the Government in November 2004. Other religious bodies participating in the talks will include the Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and Moravian churches. Also represented will be the Religious Society of Friends, Jehovah'sWitnesses, the Salvation Army, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox and Romanian Orthodox churches, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland, the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland, the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the Republic of Ireland, the Irish Council of Churches and the Humanist Association of Ireland. Mr Ahern said: "So much of what is happening within our society and in the wider world is bound up with questions of religion, religious identity and religious belief, that Governments, which refuse or fail to engage with religious communities and religious identities, risk failing in their fundamental duties to their citizens." He added that it would be mistake to forget that Ireland had a 2,000 year long religious tradition with Christianity. "The moral attitudes inculcated in a culture of faith are at the core of the beliefs of very many more people who would not particularly consider themselves aligned with any particular creed or denomination. "If modern Ireland were to dislocate from its hinterland of religious belief, our culture and our society would be cut adrift from its deepest roots and from one of its most vital sources of nourishment for its growth and direction into the future." Mr Ahern also thanked the "visionary Church personnel from all the denominations on the island, that we owe particular thanks for facilitating our education as a people". Nevada-
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  Atlantis

  http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=560&docID=3255

  Inauguration of the dialogue between Government and the churches, philosophical bodies and non-confessional organisations

  Inauguration of the dialogue between Government and the churches, philosophical bodies and non-confessional organisations

  The Taoiseach, Mr Bertie Ahern TD, has invited representatives of churches, faith communities and philosophical bodies to Dublin Castle on Monday, 26 February for the inauguration of an institutionalised dialogue with the Government.

  This initiative reflects the significant role of the churches and an increasingly diverse range of faith communities, the Government's commitment to wide-ranging consultation on public policy including through social partnership, and the provision for dialogue with the churches and other non-confessional bodies in the draft Constitutional Treaty for the European Union.

  The inauguration will include addresses by the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, followed by an official reception for all guests.

  It is envisaged that the inaugural event will be followed by a series of bilateral meetings with dialogue partners over the coming months. The Secretariat for the State, as a partner in dialogue, will be provided by the Department of the Taoiseach, but the dialogue will be arranged so as not to displace the existing and ongoing consultation and dialogue of the various civil authorities in respect of their specific functional responsibilities.

  Departments and Agencies will continue to recognise and include the churches and non-confessional bodies as part of consultation practices for policy preparation in relevant areas.

  Nevada-
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  Atlantis

  Awake-1975-November-22-p.23 No religious organization other than Jehovah’s witnesses is declaring God’s name and witnessing about his established heavenly kingdom. Hence, even on this basis Jehovah’s witnesses have nothing in common with other religious groups and can never seek any affiliation with them. These organizations simply do not stand for the same things for which Jehovah’s witnesses stand. http://m1.freeshare.us/view/?128fs3336940.jpg Nevada-
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  Oroborus21

  To be "affiliated" with someone or something means more than just talking with them or attending some function. If that were not the case than it could be said that JWs affiliate themselves with worldly persons every day when they speak to them on their doorstep or study the bible with them.

  It appears that these talks are meant to grant an audience with the government of Ireland and the attendees have an opportunity to provide input or voice their concerns over potential government conduct that could adversely impact their own activities. It only makes sense that JWs would have a representative and their presence at such talks is not contrary to their stated desire to remain politically neutral.

  -Eduardo
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  carla

  Oroborus,

  So could a rank & file go to the local meeting when the Senator (or any other local government official) is in town to voice his/her concerns re: anything? I think not. Neutral means to have no opinion one way or another about a situation. If a r & f were to go to the town hall meeting to voice a complaint or concern about something the government is doing that would be getting involved in politics. That's how its done, you get involved, you make your voice heard. It doesn't only include voting.
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  Oroborus21

  Carla,

  Setting aside the issue of whether such conduct might affect other congregation members' consciences, (because as you know, often JWs voluntarilly restrain their liberty even though they are free to act, out of this concern), I do see a big difference between voting and other non-voting "participation."

  It doesn't matter whether it is a Senator, a City Council, the Mayor or the School Board, (or even the President holding a "town hall" meeting), if what is occurring is that these government authorities are asking for community feedback, many JWs would not consider it a violation of their Christian neutrality to be present or even to step up to the microphone and voice an opinion. (The situation in the Judiciary branch of government of filing Amicus Briefs is essentially parallel, and we all know that the WTS has done that on several occassions.)

  True, many JWs would do not do this, but usually this is due to the "other's conscience/appearances reason" mentioned above or because they are lazy or because they simply don't understand that such participation is not objectionable.

  In contrast, as the old JW saw goes, "voting" represents a direct wish and approval of human rulership which is contrary to the wish of Christ's rulership and his lawful right to rule over mankind. (though isn't it the case that even the prohibition against voting has now been relaxed among JWs?)

  Anyway, the above is with respect to general situations. It seems even more likely that if the setting has to do with religion (as in the case of this thread with reference to teh Irish conference and religion) , that JWs would be even more likely to participate for the reasons I stated in my first post. It would not be surprising if they even viewed the situation as an opportunity to take their witness "before Kings and rulers" in fullfillment of scripture.

  -eduardo

  PS: I would dispute your meaning of "neutral" in this context. Certainly, JWs can feel free (and do) "complain" to the government. Whether it is filing a complaint with the local authority about their cable bill, to complaining to the city manager about a pot-hole on their street, to filing a formal condematon against a tyrannical dictator for how she is treating JWs in her country....your view that "neutrality" means absolute complete silence would preclude any of these activities and JWs' history has shown that they do not agree with that understanding of what it means to be politically neutral.
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  Zico

  PS: I would dispute your meaning of "neutral" in this context. Certainly, JWs can feel free (and do) "complain" to the government. Whether it is filing a complaint with the local authority about their cable bill, to complaining to the city manager about a pot-hole on their street, to filing a formal condematon against a tyrannical dictator for how she is treating JWs in her country....your view that "neutrality" means absolute complete silence would preclude any of these activities and JWs' history has shown that they do not agree with that understanding of what it means to be politically neutral.

  Eduardo, To be politically neutral would mean silence on any political issue. JWs and their Org do get involved in politics, as you have correctly pointed out, which makes their 'neutrality' a fake. JWs say a lot of things that aren't really true. Just because they believe they're neutral, doesn't make it so. As for JWs history with politics, have you ever read 'Fascism or Freedom' by Judge Rutherford? You might find his political stance interesting.
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  Atlantis

  Make Sure Of All Things-1965-p.31 Religious Association with False Worshipers to be Shunned!
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  carla

  So then would it be accurate to assume that the jw's have redefined yet another word? Similar to their redefinition of the word lie found in the Aid book?

  See this is why jw's and non jw's have such a difficult time communicating.
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  heathen

  I'd love to get a transcript of what goes on there. J-dubs will have to lie thru the teeth to get government approval with all the trouble they have in ireland between catholic and protestants . If they did get approval then that's a sure sign they aint what they say they are . Footstep followers of Jesus that will be hated and persecuted by all the world . We know they write anti political and anti religious material so how could they sit there and agree to get along with the other religions?