by AuldSoul 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
I get tired of JWs posting reams of "proofs" from when Jesus was on earth that end in nothing—since Jesus was speaking about HIS Father, not ours. I think you do this to avoid discussing a plainly stated prophecy.
Touche. I just posted a topic on tongues and had the same tactic from a JW. Rather than address a difficult question JWs deflect to a different point.
Jehovah has his ways and times of revealing things.
I doubt this is where you mean to go, but that may not be very far from where you are heading...
Watchtower 4/15 1953:
How about Christians? They are children of God in a unique way if they are members of the body of Christ, the anointed Christian congregation: "God sent forth his Son, who was produced out of a woman and who came to be under law, that he might release by purchase those under law, that we in turn might receive the adoption as sons. Now because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of his Son into our hearts and it cries out, ‘Abba, Father!’ So, then, you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, also an heir through God." (Gal. 4:4-7, NW) This does not have reference to the fiction of the "universal fatherhood" of God to all the world of mankind, but it is talking about individuals, no longer under the Jewish law covenant that terminated with the death of Jesus as a law covenant arrangement used by God, but who are in the new covenant through Christ Jesus as members of the body of Christ. (Heb. 8:7-13, NW) These are produced by Jehovah’s Word, which leads them to become servants of God, by his spirit, which is God’s power and includes his message as revealed in his Word, and by his righteous organization through Christ Jesus, and they are his children. With all prospects of life resting on God’s provisions, other Christians of good will, associated with those who are in the new covenant, properly address him as their Father, because he is to be their Grandfather through the Everlasting Father, Christ Jesus.—John 10:16, NW; Isa. 9:6, AS.
I don't remember any NT text ascribing the title of Father to Christ, whether in reference to Isaiah 9 or not. Later Trinitarian doctrine depends on a strict distinction between the "Father" and the "Son". Both Pauline and Johannine Christology imply that Jesus' Father is the Father of the elect (e.g. John 20:17), and that makes Christians brothers rather than sons of Jesus, as Hebrews explicitly infers (2:11f).
If Jesus is just as alive as he was when he walked the earth what is the differance if somebody asks him for something in our modern age? Isn't he as real as he was today as when he walked the earth 2000 years ago?
I like your reasoning, imagine a JW asking Jesus to forgive their sins.
Imagine the model prayer being prayed at the kingdom hall like it is in other churches.
JW's don't say the Lords prayer why not? You don't have to pray it but why not pray it once in a while?
As a JW I didn't try to answer it because it raised even more questions, like 'is Michael the archangel also our eternal father and mighty God'?
Once you eliminate the constant repitition of JW doctrine it stops making sense very quickly.
W
Great point, finally free.
Brant
Sorry, but it's all 'green eggs and ham' in my books.
Matthew 6:7 starts by saying, "But when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, ..." That's just 2 verses before he gives begins to outline some key and acceptable elements in a prayer.
Fred,
What makes you think this thread is about advocating the repitition of prayer? Please post on topic, your Reasoning book doesn't have any information on the topic of this thread. But, that aside, Jesus' model prayer did not include the use of proper name address for the Father.
How do you account for that?
—AuldSoul
What makes you think this thread is about advocating the repitition of prayer?
I was simply responding to moomanchu directly above my last post. Many millions do repeat the "Our Father", or "Lord's Prayer", believing that the words themselves are important; in reality, Jesus was stressing thoughts and priorities, rather than an exact "magic-like" formula.
Just because the Bible may not use the name Jehovah in a prayer quoting Jesus doesn't rule that point out. John 17:6-10 states: 6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth. 9 I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me; because they are yours, 10 and all my things are yours and yours are mine, and I have been glorified among them.
"I have made your name manifest" can also mean that the name became clear or apparent through Jesus. As you know, name can also mean reputation or what someone stands or is known for.
Jesus' name means "causes to become saves." According to the Bible, indeed he did, when he died for us.
Jesus' father is the Father.
Jesus became our Eternal Father, and also saved us proving to be "causes to become" who "saves."
Show me otherwise, please.
