Are JWs Christians (page 2)

Star Moore

No, Jesus was a free spirit, full of love and truth, as they don't have any of that..

kid-A

There are no denominations of sects of christianity in existence today that can rightfully claim they completely follow the teachings of Christ. There is blatant

hypocrisy in ALL organized christianity. While the JWs certainly have some appalling cultish traits with strong corporate overtones, they are no less

"christian" then modern day pentecostals, evangelicals, seventh day adventists, mormons, etc etc. In addition, there are no hard and fast "criteria" for

identifying a "true" christian organization as this was certainly never spelled out in the NT.

DanTheMan

What does it even mean to "be a Christian"?

I don't know that people are anything but complex biological assemblages with an illusion of consciousness that comes to them through their extremely complicated organ known as the brain.

It's easy to see why so many religions become legalistic. When you have a group of people that wish to define themselves by a shared label, then the process of defining what exactly this label means becomes unending, hence "theology" as an academic discipline. And all it really means is that the biological organisms in the group sharing said label have synapse bundles that fire in the same patterns as the other biological organisms in the group do in regards to metaphysical concepts with speech labels such as "morality", "God", "Salvation", etc.

Dan, breakin' it down

Cellist

As some here have said, some are "Christian" and some are not. I don't believe you can use your personal interpretation of scripture to judge them as non-Christian. If you do, you're being judgemental and not very "Christian".

I think what Kid-A said is right on the money.

Cellist

alotlikemay

ah would that it were possible for any one of us to be non-judgmental lol I'd also like never to get sick or lose my temper...

my belief is that I am in absolutely no position whatsoever to judge anyone - I have been a very very stupid person at times and done some monumentally wrong things (by anyone's standards). Of course I'm also capable of being a hypocrite!

however, yeah, of course we shouldn't go around pigeon-holing people into good and bad, christian and non-christian - there are heaps of grey areas around people's behaviour, beliefs and attitudes and so on

BUT... when an organisation puts itself about, advertising itself by sending its members to people's homes FFS (I mean, how rude and arrogant is that??) ... and makes the most grandiose claims in its own literature about its superiority as a religious group, making out it has a hotline to God so that it knows when God is going to intervene (I have heard more than one circuit or district overseer assert before thousands exactly when the Armageddon is going to be!!!) and saying it has members of God's own heavenly government in its midst.... well, my dear people, then such an organisation can expect to be held reprehensible if it doesn't live up to its claims!

and on this matter, fact is, they claim to follow the Bible - yet they select those parts they want to believe, that support their aims, and conveniently brush certain scriptures under the carpet. Christ is wonderful while they've got him on the earth making pronouncements about generations and such (ooops, haven't they dropped that old generation chestnut now?), and while he's preaching pink-and-fluffy things like love and stuff, but the minute the scripture categorically states Christ is the Judge - the Father has handed all the judging to Christ - and other very forthright texts about the role of Christ - then they can't stand it, they ignore those verses and put it right out of their minds

so, it's not me or anyone else judging them, they do a fine job of making themselves anti-christ all by themselves - I can just sit back and watch how they push the 'truth' further and further away from them

Cellist

Yes, I agree. The WTS is setting themselves up to be judged. But they aren't the only religion to believe that they are the "true" way.

While I was a JW I did my absolute best to follow the Bible and behave like a Christian. I viewed myself as a follower of Christ, but I have never believed he is God. Was I a Christian? (I no longer view myself as a Christian and have serious doubts as to whether he ever existed. But that's a completely different subject.)

Cellist

Oroborus21

its kind of a pointless discussion because no one who feels stongly about their position is likely to be pursuaded otherwise.

in the early centuries of the various groups that looked to Christ Jesus as a something to follow you had various strains of Christianity most notably the strain that won out and came to be considered orthodox and the other major strain of Christianity of the Gnostics and there were others.

Is it right for only the othodox to claim that these other groups were not Christian because they didn't believe the same things? Is it right for certain Chrisitans to essentially make the same argument today?

Anytime one tries to say that one group or religion is Christian and another is not, be they Jehovah's Witnesses or be they some mainstream religion, what they are really making a claim about is that only their definition is the correct one.

i believe that if a group claims to be Christian we should acknowledge them as christians and refrain from labellng them true or false. only Jesus can really be the judge of them.

Incidently, the basic elements of orthodox Christianity often include: baptism, the sacrament or observation of a eucharist and a trinity belief. JWs have the first two and only differ from orthodoxy on the latter. That's close enough to be considered Christian in my book.

-Eduardo

veradico

I'm with Oroborus21 (Edwardo), although I don't know that I'd go so far as to say I KNOW the real Jesus will come back as judge someday and determine who is really Christian. To say something like that, I'd have to be rather sure about what Jesus really taught. I think that almost everything you find in the Jehovah's Witness religion is within the diverse range of what, over the past couple thousand years, people who have called themselves Christian have believed. If we're talking about this from a historical perspective, I think they get to be Christian. If we're using the word "Christian" in some more subjective sense as a synonym for "good" or "truly Christian," I think most modern "Christian" religions are also far from what Jesus intended. I would argue that such doctrines as the high Christology, salvation through faith in Jesus' sacrifice, no longer following the Jewish law, and others are contrary to what the historical Jesus, insofar as we can glimpse him in the gospels, taught. In many ways, I think Orthodox Christianity is an improvement of what Jesus taught. It's more concerned with actually improving this world, less obsessed with the apocalypse, and has a rich, two-thousand year old tradition to draw on.

zack

I think it is certainly proper to observe the behavior of a certain group and make observations of that behavior and subject it to a standard. In this instance

the standard would be Jesus Christ and his teachings. (The FDS claims they represent God's Kingdom on Earth)

JesusChrist preached the kingdon of heaven/ JW's preach paradise Earth

JesusChrist gave his followers the hope to be WITH HIM in the HOUSE OF HIS FATHER/ JW's preach paradise Earth

Jesus told his followers he would go his way first and later they could follow/JW's teach paradise Earth

Jesus taught one faith, one hope, one baptism/JW's teach teach two hopes, two destinies, two classes of people

There are many other differences, but the above alone suggests to me that the JW teaching/doctrine-- whatever their FEELINGS may be---- is wholly contrary

to Christianity--- the discipleship of Christ, the drinking of his cup, the bearing of his cross, the surrender of the flesh for the promise of the spirit.

To inherit the kingdom of heaven one has to die, just as Christ did. The JW teaching and carrot has been that YOU DID NOT HAVE TO DIE!!! No, indeed,

you could by-pass the cup that Christ himself had to drink, and waltz right into paradise EARTH. And millions have reached out for this carrot and they have

ended up disillusioned. In the process they have missed out on the relationship that could have given them the most joy, the relationship of Sonship with the Father.

This relationship is denied them by their leaders. So the WT leaders and the JW ORG as a whole are ANTI-CHRIST for they deny his place, his power, and

his promise. That is not a judgement, but an observable and quantifiable fact.

Oroborus21

ah after reading Verd's comments, i just want to reiterate..

that JWs are a sect of 19th Century Adventism...their body of beliefs falls squarely within adventist theology and even a lot of the cultural aspects are adventist. If it weren't for the fundamental difference regarding the diety of Christ and the trinity, they would probably be considered by all to be very similar to today's major adventist religions/strains which most acknowlege as a legitimate branch of Christianity.

Are JWs Christians

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