Calm down CRR
I am not interested in lib v. conservative pettyness.
I only am interested in sorting out the validity of my mom's point (which I think is none) about all of the issues in these "end times" and this latest war in the middle east being based on *religion* or not.
Any other ideas on topic?
WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???
by Kudra 37 Replies latest jw friends
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Kudra
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sinis
If you have a conspiracy theory that has value or legs, bring it up on wikipedia. I'm sure they'll find enough proof of the "Osama not connected to 9/11" theory interesting. *L*
Dude I don't need Wiki to tell me what they don't know. Oh, and its not a conspiracy theory...thats all I'm saying...
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Brother Apostate
I believe the Iraq War is for numerous reasons:
-Depose a hostile Dictator (Saddam)
-Keep jihadis busy fighting the West over there instead of over here.
-Pave the way for US Military bases in the Middle East.
-Indirectly control the Iraqi Oil, and who benefits from it.
-Uphold the value of the US Dollar.
BA- Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm not
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ColdRedRain
No, it's not a "theory" because theories are laws and rules in motion. It's more of a "crackpot statement based on long debunked evidence". But in common vernacular, the term for what you brought up is "conspiracy theory".
And if you don't want something being a lib vs conservative discussion, it would be wise not to bring up a liberal talking point.
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sinis
Calm down CRR
I am not interested in lib v. conservative pettyness.
I only am interested in sorting out the validity of my mom's point (which I think is none) about all of the issues in these "end times" and this latest war in the middle east being based on *religion* or not.
Any other ideas on topic?All empires come to an end. Why is America any different? The new kid on the block is China. Eventually they will be a first world super power, while America, due to its weak intestinal fortitude will slip into 2nd or 3rd world status. If society ends it will be due to man and not God. More than likely, the future is ominous in that your freedoms will erode, and this country will lean towards a socialist (even more so) fascist government. Look around today, and no I'm not talking about the Patriot Act as so many flaming libs mention. Small freedoms slowly erode, as do governments ability to dictate what is beneficial for you the citizen. Most people conform because they cannot think for themselves, they need someone to do it for them. In a sense the Pygmalion theory comes true.
Look up articles on the Amero, North American Union for a start. You will see tons of documents generated by this government (via FOIPA) to Canada and Mexico indicating that this is what the governments are planning.
Besides, the Muslims pass out maps (of the world) at their mosque saying they will take over the world by 2050 from sheer force. The map breaks down which countrys they currently have control of and which ones they will have control of (US is one of them).
So really, man can bring about his own demise without the need for god to do it. I think we have the extinction thing covered pretty good
To answer your question, no its not "end times" with respect to God. Its interesting that several popes from past centurys have all said the same thing - these times are the most wicked and the end is coming. Fortunately, it did not come and the next century rolled around, with a new pope saying the same thing. Nothing changes. From a financial, political, and military perspective future generations may be in for a suprise but I'm sure life will find a way to eek out an existence without gods hand. Tell your mom its the same old shit, different time, and that everything will continue to hum along, maybe not as great as past generations, but it will keep going - even if that means living in a bomb shelter
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Kudra
BA- how much of a religious reason do you see? Any? None?
I know that the US calls itself a "Christian nation" but is religious difference at all a bit of the reason there is all this unrest and war between the Western world and the Middle East??
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ColdRedRain
I believe in the war because:
It was a wise thing to stop 2 rich, muslim men who both hated the united states from uniting together after 9/11, which saddam and osama had intentions of doing.
Iraq should have been cleaned up in 1991 and not 2003, Saddam was a monster we let live just because we wanted Iran and Iraq, 2 nations we didn't ever like in the first place go into a stalemate war instead of having Iran crush them. We let him linger for too long in 91 after he went too far.
The Middle east needs to be cleaned up because it's a breeding ground for dictators.
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Brother Apostate
BA- how much of a religious reason do you see? Any? None?
I know that the US calls itself a "Christian nation" but is religious difference at all a bit of the reason there is all this unrest and war between the Western world and the Middle East??
-KIn a way, religion, as always in warfare, is an issuue. In this case it is the fundamentalist Muslim Jihadis who are easily manipulated into their hatred of the West as a scapegoat for all their problems. You know, the US = "The Great Satan" mindset. Hence 9/11 and other terror attacks.
Yes, I would say the religion of the Jihadis, is a primary driver. As for the West, I don't believe religion, but rather self-presevation, self-interest, and continued domination are what's at stake. The US is a melting pot of religion, atheism, agnosticism, racism, and many other isms, rather than a Christian Nation", imo.
BA.
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ColdRedRain
Until China liberalizes its economy and stops central planning, it will NEVER be the big boy on the block because to be dominant in an economy, you have to have lazziez faire economics, something China will have a hard time abandonning.
Look at all the biggest economic empires in the history of the world. None of them were centrally planned. And if you site the Soviet Union as an example, there's a reason why it fell within 75 years. Nobody bought Soviet products because nobody felt a reason to go into business because they were taxed into oblivion. In fact, the only reason China's economy is rocking right now is because China is starting to embrace capitalism. China will be the big boy, but not until it fully embraces capitalism.
Oh, and an Amero won't work. You need powerful economies in order to make a multi-national union work. And we already have a de facto Amero. It's called the American dollar.
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Kudra
CRR-
So you see no influence of religion in this huge conflagration between western countries and middle eastern ones? All political- as in to gain control of the most land/resources and to keep other countries from invading?
All,
Would you all say that religion is merely the *vehicle* that the middle east used to organize its masses instead of actually wanting us to be destroyed because they genuinely believe we have the wrong spiritual path?
-K