This story only talks about choices, because bad as an effect of something just can occur / so does the knowlegde - it have to come with time. More you know and more you'll be able to use those knowledges for the good or the bad ... You can be nice/cool or you can be ugly/vicious.
Who is injured ? (well everybody who will have to suffer from a bad decision) and if God is all God is injured. This story talks about do not forget about the other ones.
Adam and Eve's story is the story of every human from birth since we have free will we have the choice but we do not always know the consequences even if sometimes people or history tell us but we don't want to hear about it ... So the bad experience is switched on "on"
Also in every matter whatever we do or not can have an impact on everybody. (it's a legacy = good or bad). And sins (biblicaly talking from the NT) is more related to wills / than acts.
As an image eating the fruit is only a confirmation of what was wanted (the moment the choice have been made).
WHO IS THE INJURED PARTY? What is wrong with this doctrine?
by Terry 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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RAF
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kid-A
"Scully you can't ignore the fact that mankinds physical structure was made to live forever. Our cell structure is made to reproduce and repair itself. Scientist are still baffled by this occurrence"
I didnt think you could top the ridiculousness of your previous post on "genetic transmission of sin" but it appears you have done it!
This is complete garbage. The molecular machinery of the cell is programmed to die! Its called "apoptosis" and its a completely natural and necessary cellular process within ALL multicellular organisms. Cellular replication is controlled by molecular structures called "telomeres" which become shorter and shorter with each division until the cell no longer divides, and goes into apoptotic self-destruction.
It is blatantly obvious you have no understanding of science, evolution or molecular biology so why do you continue to post bullshit statements like this that anyone who has taken grade 9 biology can readily debunk? Stop insulting our intelligence with this illiterate nonsense.
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Anti-Christ
I tell you, the same one who told Adam and Eve that they can be like God by eating the forbidden fruit!
"Satan the devil"
I find that intresting. You see if it was not for "satan" mankind would not have had the chance to become like god. Acording to the bible some humans will be given immortal bodies in heaven and will be given thrones.Now corect me if I'm wrong but I was told the thing about the tree of knowledge was a free will issue. Humans where created with the ability to "sin" becuase of free will. So my question is the humans who are resurected incorruptible, that means incapable of sining, do they lose their free will? And does god have free will if he also can not sin?
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hillary_step
Kid A,
It is blatantly obvious you have no understanding of science, evolution or molecular biology so why do you continue to post bullshit statements like this that anyone who has taken grade 9 biology can readily debunk? Stop insulting our intelligence with this illiterate nonsense.
I admire your softly-softly approach, but I think for discussion board dynamics it would help if you stopped beating around the bush and tell us what you really feel.
HS
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Black Man
OK, I'll chime in here.....I have always struggled with the whole universal issue/introduction of sin analogy and it's never really computed with me and still doesn't. But I APPRECIATE the dialogue about this from both sides (pro & against) of the topic and the way in which the debates in this thread have for the most part been civil. This is dialogue that you can NEVER get at a kingdom hall and I love being able to MENTALLY exercise, ponder and think about the subject and its accompanying responses. Such a contrast to the brain-dead exercise routines in cognitive dissonance one receives at a KH. Thank you everyone for posting here!!! Just had to get that out............
And by the way, RAF aka Frenchbabyface, I have had such a ongoing crush on you and your pic/avatar.....you are as cute as your thoughts...........just had to get that out too...............
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RAF
Black Man
Most of people I guess are quiet ambarassed with the story of Adam and Eve as this story with its consequence seems to be so unfair to others (the kids). Since the begining I was wondering how can something/a story like that being told for being fair from human perspective and also God's perspective.
The answer which came to me is related to what is also underlying : we are not the kids of Adam and Eve (our Parents are vessels in the right time to developpe and bring us to human life) biblically talking we've been created by God's essence as a spirit first (all unic for the need of diversity) and giving life by Christ/the spiritual God of the essence of God.
Biblically talking John the baptiste was Eli (before being his seconds parents kids) because he did existe before and before ... as a spirit (awake or switched on "off") did John the baptiste knew he was Eli ? (I do not remember something like that being written in the bible - but Jesus did say he was Eli)
We can believe in this/those story(ies) as real or conceptual/imaged but it always means the same ... we are all in Adam or Eve's position from the start (at birth) and we will make our own choices for ourselves (whoever will pay the first bill = anyone who have been forgotten in the equation - in the process of the decision on purpose because we don't care or because we forgot or we didn't know yet about what will be the consequences).
"Everything" in this story could be God (what is telling us that what we are doing is wrong/unfair/stupid/unbalanced ...) like our Parents or simply what we know (history) ...anything. Also most of people might say it's the snake or my wife (whathever) which pushed me to "chose" that ... but who made the decision ? And WHY (it's always about the why) in knowing or not the conséquences.
I mean when we chose something we have always have a "personal" reason.
As a parent I haven't always been able to explain some things to my son ... I could only tell about those things in my own way (short or long version) ... but I just knew he had to experience some things to get them for real. But at the end what he wants is still his own choice (which can have nothing to do with what he does as a reaction to anything psychological or biological/physical) .
A man who follow the JW doctrine have made his choice and if what he can see (past/present) do not tell him that the WTBS is wrong ... he made the choice to not care about it ... Why ? because he "wants" to believe it's right or doesn't matter (regarding to his own agenda).
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Terry
Tell whatever story you like, I say. Just, don't pass off your own story, your own understanding, your own prejudice or imagination as a representation of an actual event.
Genesis is perpetrated upon people AS THOUGH it were true.
Genesis is a foundational premise for the thinking of children.
IF GOD can represent His supreme Justice in the manner in which Adam and Eve were treated THIS SAYS SOMETHING to the conscience and subconscience of generations of true believers.
In my opinion, IT WARPS your thinking!
Whatever/whomever God is----this tory represents them quite insanely.
It boggles my mind that people are so intellectually desperate that they will twist their mind into a pretzel to make it work...somehow!
I see what people buy in bookstores in the religion section. They are starved for an explanation of the belief they hold which makes no sense whatsoever in any real terms. Their eagerness and willingness to swallow almost any ridiculous opinion is just tragic.
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RAF
I'll make it short : Reading is not enough
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fifi40
If I had to say a prayer it would go something like this
God if you exist, as I was led to believe in my formative years, forgive my questioning of you and please understand the humble, ignorant person I am. My faith in you has long since crumbled, due to all the perverse, evil acts, desperate and sad situations that infect this earth upon which you placed us, your creation.
If you created us according to the story of Adam and Eve, you are responsible for what we have become. Man did not choose to be created, it was for your pleasing. If you created us with the ability to displease you, we did not ask you to do this and the repercussion of displeasing you, in my limited and humble opinion, far outways the act committed. You have left us like an imprisoned victim, awaiting scraps of food and water at your discretion, hoping one day if we are good enough that you will release us. You are our captor, for you and you alone, according to your book have the power to free us, to give release to the sufferings of millions. God forgive me if the intelligence you created me with, the reasoning ability you gave me, cannot equate the situation mankind finds itself in with the 'God of Love and forgivness' described in other parts of the bible.
Man has proven both his ability to do many good things, to invent and provide in ways beneficial too mankind, but also to carry out terrible acts and atrocities, some even in your name, against innocent people. According to your word you have the ability to end such things. How much suffering do you require before you bring that end? How much faith and worship do you require? And to what end? No loving parent would allow their child to suffer in such ways for such an act of disobedience.
I sincerely ask for your compassion, if this mere human brain cannot comprehend your existence because of what I see as your failure to care and correct. I am how you made me, according to the bible, and for this I cannot even ask your forgivness. If I question you made me that way, if I am ignorant and cannot believe it is at your hand, I am according to your words YOUR CREATION.
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Vinny
Terry says:...."Tell whatever story you like, I say. Just, don't pass off your own story, your own understanding, your own prejudice or imagination as a representation of an actual event."
If you feel it's all fiction, then by all means tell people just that. I for one will not tell you what to tell others about it or what to believe. What I WILL do however, is tell you just WHY I may disagree with you, and WHY I may believe differently. Which I have done here. So Terry, you can get off of that high horse you you seem to enjoy riding and EAT your own arrogant advice above.