Do the JW'S know what a cult really is? (page 2)

OUTLAW

Every JW knows what a cult is..And..It`s not them..The WBT$ say`s so...OUTLAW

The ones I have talked to say they are not a cult because of the 'adherence to a leader', they take this to mean one individual. Nevermind that a group of men can act as one unit or one in leadership. They dismiss it.

jelcat8224

As a JW, I went by the Resoning Book'd definition of a cult: Follow one leader, live seperate from others. Then I would parrot the old "we live right in among everyone else. We don't seperate ourselves from the world and go live in some secluded community, so JW's must not be a cult right?" ... UGH! What a fool I was! The WTBS just feeds them all a nice neat little definition of a cult ad they all just fall right in line! It's infuriating!

LongHairGal

I think practically all the things on the list apply. I especially like No. 7. I never thought much about it but it does apply: " ......exist for their own material survival....make false promises to work to improve society". The survival and image of the religion is above all else.

While the JWs don't claim they want to improve society, they do make claims that they are good citizens and obey laws. For the most part this may be true but the demands and policies of the religion work against somebody being a good (or a useful) citizen and obeying laws. For instance, their policy of speaking against higher education goes against the best interests of any society. How can ignorance ever be good? Their neediness (because of being so undereducated and underemployed) has given rise to so many desperados and con-artists among them. They will brag how "honest" they are, but they will swindle their "brother" in a heartbeat. How does this make them desirable to be around??? Also, a JW will reveal a confidence on a job and cause their employer to be sued. How can this be good for society??? What about the theocratic strategy of lying when it suits them. How can this be good??

Also, since their belief is a hope that everybody but themselves be struck dead, how can this promote an attitude of love of neighbor?

LHG

ithinkisee

It has been reprinted numerous times on this site, but here is the location where the latest version is updated constantly:

JWs as cults with tons of Watchtower publication references

-ithinkisee

PEC

1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.

With JWS the GB is their Messiah. How can anyone argue otherwise?

ButtLight

So, who is the "all powerfull leader here?" The GB? The WTS? Either one says jump, and they ask how high! That would appear to be total allegience to me....jmo

And they are isolated from the rest...they keep their distance from the dfed and da'd......the worldly ones, the inactive ones......I consider that very isolated.

Liberty

From the Watch Tower religion's (cult's) very inception until 1942 the members were under the thumb of just one all powerfull leader in succession, first Russel and then Rutherford. From 1942 until 1975 they were totally controlled by the will of just two co-leaders, Knorr and F. Franz. These leaders fit the defintition of cult leaders in every sense of the word including ordering thousands of their followers to die for the cult. Though Russel demanded the least of his followers he is every bit as cultic a leader as Smith was to the Mormons.

The Watch Tower uses the "we don't follow a man" as a reason that they are not a cult but any objective look at the history of their leadership proves this to be a lie. They were never ruled by the mystical connection/collective of the 144,000 Princes and even since the change to a Governing Body in 1975 the GB has never been in contact with the majority of the 8,000+ remnent Class still accepting the "Lord's evening meal". Still a lie, still a cult.

daystar

Just like most groups, and most individuals for that matter, they find the information that seems to support their preferred answer to such a question and dismiss all else as at least incorrect, at worst, directly opposed to them, or they simply ignore the matter entirely.

under_believer

I am deeply interested in this subject. Convincing my wife that the cult is a cult is one of my top priorities. So thanks for posting this list. I do have some concerns, though. Most or all of these points do apply to Witnesses, but I think this list is problematic to show to Witnesses because there is wiggle room in some of the terms.

1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.
Well we know that they venerate the Governing Body and the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" in that way, but they don't hold any belief about them being specifically the Messiah. So while this point applies, it is worded wrong for Witnesses to accept it.

2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.
One only need point at the literature about the evils of independent thinking to prove this one.

3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.
Hmm... I don't think most Witnesses would agree with this one. I'm not even sure I do. You can find out anything you want about them by asking, they don't deliberately hide anything about themselves from "Bible studies". Of course there are things you find out after you've been in for a few months, but it's not like they're official points of doctrine that were hidden on purpose.

4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.
ABSOLUTELY. No doubt. And easy to prove too--how much literature says, to solve problems, you should study the Society's literature more, go out in service more, pray more, go to meetings more?

5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.
Again this one is easy to prove. The Witness judicial system is entirely based on guilt. The Witness moral code is based on guilt. The talks from the platform (the ones where the brother says "did anyone's toes get stepped on?") are based on guilt.

6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.
This one is heavily true, but it might be problematic for active Witnesses. We know this one is true, with their not-so-veiled "suggestions" about who one should marry, how much school one should get, what jobs are appropriate, what entertainment and recreation (and how much!) one should "partake" in. But the way this sentence is written it sounds like the elders directly make all these decisions for the Witnesses and that's not true, it's more indirect and much more insidious.

7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.
This is true, to an external observer, but it would be hard to prove that to a Witness. They think they're saving the world and doing a "life-saving work."

8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.
That one is just right out on the surface. Witnesses can accept that one easily, it's impossible to deny.

9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.
This one, unfortunately, I don't think is true at all. The scary thing about this is that many Witnesses aren't shielded from the outside world and yet they stay Witnesses. By definition, they're going in service, going to school, to work, etc, around "worldly" people.

10. Cults are antiwoman, antichild, and antifamily.
Again this is true, but the "sisters" in the hall don't see it that way. Just like so many Muslim women are brainwashed to believe that they misogyny built into that religion is a benefit to women, so Witnesses do too. They don't see disfellowshipping as breaking up families; they think the one leaving who broke up the family.

11. Cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.
This is another one that is self-evident.

12. Many cults follow an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
Hmm... I think it would be hard to convince any Witnesses of this one. Could someone could help out with some examples of this?

13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.

Definitely. No Witness knows anything about the Society's finances. There are deceptive financial practices at assemblies, for example.

14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.

I have a hard time with this one. Unless you're talking about "emotional violence." I don't think that the Witnesses have an aura of or potential for physical violence around them.

Do the JW'S know what a cult really is?