Do the JW'S know what a cult really is?

by ButtLight 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  dozy

  Hmmm - the list is produced by evangelical Christians . so therefore the language in the article is cleverly and manipulatively loaded - notice how those who allow poisonous snakes to bite them or who speak in tongues are not included in the deifnition of cultlike. They also suggest that Catholicism is a cult ,while claiming that cults don't adhere to "orthodox" religious views (whatever they are).

  The problem is that most of the "characteristics" (without the loading) would also apply to Jesus & his followers , or Paul & the 1st century Christians (who were also called a sect by opposers). There is certainly no aura of violence around JWs - they are the kindest and most peaceable people I know.

  There is no question that the WTS exhibit a degree of control that is uncomfortable for many (including myself) , but most independent analysts would hesitate to call them a cult - over two hundred governments around the world haven't come to this conclusion (although North Korea has - go figure). Just as one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter , so one mans cult is another's religion.
• 

  Stealth453

  The watchliars have done a supurb job of insulating themselves from the "worldly" views of mainstream society.

  Wow...they really are a cult.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  For Under_believer's benefit, I must tackle these one by one:

  1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah. Well we know that they venerate the Governing Body and the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" in that way, but they don't hold any belief about them being specifically the Messiah. So while this point applies, it is worded wrong for Witnesses to accept it.

  The average JW doesn't know that blind obedience to the GB qualifies for No. 1, and they think they follow only Jehovah and
  to a lesser degree, Jesus.

  2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.
  One only need point at the literature about the evils of independent thinking to prove this one.

  The average JW thinks that he has deeper understanding of God's thinking, so his rational thought is better
  than others.

  3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.
  Hmm... I don't think most Witnesses would agree with this one. I'm not even sure I do. You can find out
  anything you want about them by asking, they don't deliberately hide anything about themselves from "Bible studies".
  Of course there are things you find out after you've been in for a few months, but it's not like they're official points of
  doctrine that were hidden on purpose.

  I had to answer this one. The "Bible Teach" book doesn't mention the anointed or the Governing Body. This is the
  current book leading to baptism. In the past, while they did mention such things, they were still taught to say of any
  questions that went deep "You will learn that later. If you attend the meetings, we will cover that there." The person
  who studies with you is misleading, and he doesn't really know it, because he's convinced that he is saving you, and
  he has been misled. Blind studying with the blind.
  No discussion of prophecies failing to come true (I know they would even object to my wording) and no coverage of
  Witness history in a "Bible" study. No mention of what baptism means if you change your mind and want to leave the
  JW's- just "You are free to go."
  Even the most basic encounter at the door, JW's are taught to say they aren't there to convert or pressure you, just to
  encourage Bible reading, or some other clearly false nonsense.

  4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.
  ABSOLUTELY. No doubt. And easy to prove too--how much literature says, to solve problems, you should study the
  Society's literature more, go out in service more, pray more, go to meetings more?

  They also tell you that the elders are spiritual men assigned as your shepherds. The Bible says to confess your sins.
  The WTS insists you confess to the elders.

  5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.
  Again this one is easy to prove. The Witness judicial system is entirely based on guilt. The Witness moral code is based
  on guilt. The talks from the platform (the ones where the brother says "did anyone's toes get stepped on?") are based on guilt.

  Nothing further to add.

  6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.
  This one is heavily true, but it might be problematic for active Witnesses. We know this one is true, with their not-so-veiled
  "suggestions" about who one should marry, how much school one should get, what jobs are appropriate, what entertainment
  and recreation (and how much!) one should "partake" in. But the way this sentence is written it sounds like the elders directly
  make all these decisions for the Witnesses and that's not true, it's more indirect and much more insidious.

  Excellent analysis, Under_believer

  7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.
  This is true, to an external observer, but it would be hard to prove that to a Witness. They think they're saving the world and
  doing a "life-saving work."

  Expansion has always been the thrust of the WTS. This is proof of God's blessings. Then Walmart has God's blessings.

  
  
  8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.
  That one is just right out on the surface. Witnesses can accept that one easily, it's impossible to deny.

  9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.
  This one, unfortunately, I don't think is true at all. The scary thing about this is that many Witnesses aren't shielded from the
  outside world and yet they stay Witnesses. By definition, they're going in service, going to school, to work, etc, around "worldly" people.

  There's homeschooling for many children. Many JW's work for JW's to avoid worldly association. Gauge how much time
  a JW spends with worldly family. It's less and less if the WTS is successfully controlling his life.
  JW's are told to stay busy in the truth and cut down on worldly entertainment. Told to avoid family reunions or high school
  reunions. They won't go to a family church wedding or church funeral. They don't go to office parties. They are told the
  worldly ones are under Satan's control.
  They just never moved to a compound to isolate themselves (except Bethelites). Otherwise, they are very isolationist.

  10. Cults are antiwoman, antichild, and antifamily.
  Again this is true, but the "sisters" in the hall don't see it that way. Just like so many Muslim women are brainwashed to believe
  that they misogyny built into that religion is a benefit to women, so Witnesses do too. They don't see disfellowshipping as
  breaking up families; they think the one leaving who broke up the family.

  The sisters don't shout it out, because they are misled by the doctrine, but just mentioning this one, most of them know it
  describes JW's. Children may or may not understand, they didn't grow up outside of it, but they compare themselves to
  schoolmates, unless they are homeschooled.

  11. Cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.
  This is another one that is self-evident.
  
  12. Many cults follow an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
  Hmm... I think it would be hard to convince any Witnesses of this one. Could someone could help out with some examples of this?

  I wouldn't bother trying to teach a JW this one. You would have to convince them that burying JW history and false prophecies
  was done, or that they use deceitful recruiting. Then you could convince them of this one. Better to start elsewhere.
  Best examples that come to mind are "placing literature" and getting donations. This is all important. Even if those people don't
  become JW's, get them to support the work.

  13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.

  Definitely. No Witness knows anything about the Society's finances. There are deceptive financial practices at assemblies, for example.

  Don't forget that JW rank and file don't know much about the GB, and the two-thirds majority for doctrinal changes.
  They don't know how elders follow a set of rules from Mother, call Mother about misunderstandings.

  14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.

  I have a hard time with this one. Unless you're talking about "emotional violence." I don't think that the Witnesses have an aura of or
  potential for physical violence around them.

  I tend to agree, UB. But their rules often protect wife-beaters and child-abusers.
• 

  KW13

  Witnesses are taught the world is a bad place with 'big bad' people out to hurt them. Its like telling a child you will hurt them if they do something they shouldn't, it doesn't physically prevent the child from doing it, but 99% of the time, fear of getting hurt will stop them unless they are curious (which the Society also discourage).

  Every single thing from disaster to war is used to show the dubs how this world is on its way out.

  They have a whacked out perspective of everything given by the Society. If i said to you - this world is bad and gave you a lot of so called evidence that you could accept, why would you think i was making it up? why would you risk getting hurt? A lot of dubs were once worldly people who had a lot of problems or a bad childhood and the Society wrap them in cotton wool telling them that every life in the world is like this, and if its not its rare.
• 

  dawg

  Underbeliever and the rest of you guys... just because someone wrote somehting about a cult and tries to define cults in their own way, surly doesn't mean that person's opinion is the correct one, or the only way one can see things in an effort to define cults. Professor Margaret Thaler Singer wrote an interesting book titled: Cults in our Mist, the Hidden Menace in out Everyday Lives. Her pedigree is quite impressive as she was one of the first folks to do research work on cults and before her death she was considered one of the leading experts. Her criteria?

  1) Keep the person unaware that there is an agenda to control or change the person.

  2) Control time and physical enviorment (contacts, information)

  3) Create a sense of powerless, fear and dependency

  4) Suppress old behavior and attitudes

  5) Install new behovior and attitudes

  6) Put forth a closed system of logic

  I'm sure there are many ways of looking at the mind control techs, but as one can see all can be quite effective.
• 

  ButtLight

  UNDER....

  Ithinkisee put up another interesting link if you want to read over it! Here it is again.

  JWs as cults with tons of Watchtower publication references
• 

  Liberty

  #14 about the aura of violence is harder to see because it is backwardly positioned but yet still very true. The Watch Tower Society promotes violence against its own members by unnecessarily inciting mobs and government authorities to beat, torture, imprison, and kill JWs due to the WT's irrational and extreme policies/tactics. The trick here is that the WT Society uses outside forces to direct violence against their members instead of encouraging the members to be violent toward outsiders.

  Rutherford was a master at inciting communities and governments to attack JWs by purposfully being as offensive and unreasonable as possible so that the members could be used for propaganda when they were victimized. This continued to a lesser extent during Knorr and F. Franz's rule when the "persecution" in Malawi was a great recruitment tool and internal morale booster. People suffered and died over what was essentially a tax because buying a manditory party membership card in a one party state is by definition not political (for more details and hypocrysy see Crisis of Conscience). Many JWs were imprisoned because they refused non-military alternative service doing the same jobs they would then agree to do in prison all at the orders of the leadership of the WT. Much of the so-called persecution the JWs have suffered over the years could have been avoided by being quiet, reasonable, and discreet but this doesn't buy the Society the free publicity that violent persecution does.

  Also the Society has over the years encouraged self-violence by having bizzarre and capricious medical rules against vaccinations, organ transplants, and still to this day blood use.

  In all of these examples the JW is made a passive recipient of violence and harm.
• 

  under_believer

  Thanks for the clarifications from everyone. The list is valuable, no doubt, and a modified form of it is going into my toolbox.
  
  As dozy alludes to, the trouble with these "cult checklists," and there are many of them out there, is that they're often heavily biased towards one group. What we seem to see quite often is a former cult member, disgruntled with the group they just left, thinking "what didn't I like about that group I just left?" And then writing it down in a list. I'm afraid intelligent JW's should be able to see this, too.
  
  Also, "cult" just carries too much baggage. I think using that word instantly puts people on the defensive, for obvious reasons. Personally I prefer the term "high-control group." If we can convince someone that their thinking, actions, lives are being controlled by others who have no right to do so, if we can convince them that the claim to authority of those doing the controlling is invalid, we go a long ways towards opening their eyes. For this reason, even though Hassan's research started out heavily biased towards Moonies, the way it's evolved towards focusing on control makes it effective.
• 

  sexyk

  I don't really care what people are saying on here defending "The Truth" by saying it's a not a cult. If I wanted to hear that, i'd just have to listen to my parents (Who are very active Witnesses, pioneers).

  It's definetely a cult, just look up the word "Cult"online or in a dictionary, whatever, and it's very hard not to connect the two.

  keith
• 

  restrangled

  They know as much about what a cult is as they do about what a real apostate is.....do the math!!!!!!!

  r.