Literal or figurative Heaven? Revelation Grand Climax - page 68

by jgnat 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Hellrider

  Rosalee:

  hr:

  The reason I mentioned Matthew 6:19-21 was to show Janet that it was figurative.

  The preceding chapter is speaking of a literal heaven.

  What's your problem???

  My problem is that you are wrong: The entire gospel of Matthew is focused primarily on a literal heaven, not a "figurative". There are extremely few "hints" to a "figurative" heaven in Matthew, the idea of a, not "figurative", but spiritual heaven, or a "spiritual Kingdom", that one can enter while allready alive, here on earth, by believing in Jesus Christ ("I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life"), doesn`t really show up in the NT before the Gospel of John. Matthew is no-where speaking of a "figurative" heaven, not in chapter 5, not in chapter 6, and nowhere else. When I said that "heaven" in Matthew "... refers.. more to the "literal" than the figurative", I was thinking more about the NT as a whole. My mistake, I should have said: The passages about heaven in Matthew refers to a literal heaven, not a figurative.

  And Jgnat, yes, you are right. It is questionable to even speak of a "figurative" heaven at all. But I guess you could call the "life in Christ" (in the sense of Johns gospel), or "he who believes in me will never die..." (in the sense "having allready crossed over from death to life) a "spiritual heaven", because of the fact that one enters it while already living here on earth. But "figurative", you are right, its not.
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  Atlantis

  Paragraph 7 starts on page 67 and continues on to page 68. Revelation book pages 67-68 http://m1.freeshare.us/view/?141fs369446.jpg http://m1.freeshare.us/view/?141fs37019.jpg Nevada-
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  Rosalee

  HR:

  In Matthew 6:19-21 it means not to treasure earthly, material wealth. Rather, (symbolically) store up treasures in heaven by making a good name for yourself with Jehovah. This is figurative in that you cannot touch it as you can silver and gold and so on. You also, while alive on earth cannot touch it physically. It is a spiritual treasure.

  21 "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Your treasure is a spiritual one and that is where your spiritual heart will be also.
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  jgnat

  But I wasn't talking about the literalness of the treasures, was I Rosalee? I'm referring specifically of heaven.
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  reneeisorym

  It is true that the scripture it talking about something non-tangible. Storing up treasures on earth would be storing up gold/silver (things you can touch) and storing up treasures in heaven would be non-tangible (things you can't touch)

  We aren't in heaven so now we can't be storing up treasures like silver and gold and putting them there. We can however work on our relationship with God and helping other people to come into a relationship with God -- and therefore storing up treasures so we will be rewarded when we get to heaven.

  The heaven then is not symbolic -- as the above post says, the treasures are symbolic but not heaven.
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  Rosalee

  to whom it may concern:

  I got the private message but don't know how to answer it.

  Just to say in answer. It was an educated guess :)
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  Narkissos

  Perhaps the question should be, figurative to which degree?

  Aren't the "heavens" where "God" is supposed to dwell figurative in relation to the "physical heavens" (aka "space" in modern representation)?

  And we look down on ancient cosmologies as "naive"...
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  Leolaia

  I disagree....I see no reference to a "figurative heaven" in this paragraph; Matthew 6:19-21 is quite legitimately cited as a parallel to the ideal spiritual wealth that contrasts with the Laodiceans' actual spiritual poverty. See also 1 Corinthians 1:5, 2 Corinthians 8:9, in which Paul describes the Christians of Corinth as spiritually rich. The Society's interpretation, while a natural one, is not the only possible one of the text. The Christians of Laodicea may have instead claimed to have been spiritually rich (as opposed to materially rich), which the Lord here disputes by characterizing them as "lukewarm" instead. This reading actually fits the wording a bit better, as well as the historical situation (i.e. Laodicea was destroyed in an earthquake in AD 60 and did not receive imperial funds in the rebuilding effort, tho it is possible that the city recovered its wealth by the 90s).

  BTW, the statement attributed to the Laodiceans is almost word-for-word the same as a statement in Epictetus ("I am rich and need nothing"). This does not need to imply direct dependence, since this simple expression may have been a commonplace.
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  compound complex

  bttt - I really need to study this one! Thanks, jgnat!

  CoCo