Trolling Apologist vs. Informed Apostate - WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CHANGE?

by BizzyBee 122 Replies latest jw friends

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Hi never:

    So sorry you feel the way you do. I am sad for you.

    Rosie

    Please dont feel sad for me Rosie. I've never been happier. I've never seen my fellow human beings in such a positive light. Now I try to understand people and empathize with them. I am connecting with people constantly in my day-to-day life( yes I do have a busy and fulfilling life outside of JWD ). As a Witness, we were trained to value others only as potential converts. That may sound a little extreme, but you know that's the case sister.

    I have never enjoyed so much clarity of thought as I presently do. Do I have all the answers? Do I claim to? Do I attempt to? Nope. But that's ok. I am at peace.

    I sincerely wish that you could have what I have.

    Nvr

  • BFD
    BFD

    Well said, brother.

    BFD

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Well said, brother.

    BFD

    Thanks brother. It was from the heart.

  • Rosalee
    Rosalee

    never:

    I do empathize with people. I do not see people as potential converts. My wish is that all would see the truth and act on it. But it's an individual's choice.

    If you knew others who were as unhappy as yourself, that really is sad. I guess we aren't all cut out for the life I've chosen.

    Wishing you well .. wherever you go :) (from the heart as well)

    Rosie

  • Frank75
    Frank75

    I too was one of those zealot apologists while I was trying to make sense of what was going on in what I thought was the truth. The start of my exit was reading the bible, and the bible alone. The first lesson I learned early on is that God was never institutional, nor those who followed him. That struck me considering the stories of Adam through to Jacob. If anything the nation of Israel taught me from Moses to 70ce, was that only individuals were ever able to find a spiritual connection to God. There was no way to teach, nor was there a short cut. You either had it or you didn't. Ordered religion was a disaster, even one said to be started by God, and always will be. Reading about the Israelites showed me that corruption went all the way to the top and then back down again. Seeing the wickedness in the various congregations, I had to admit it went all the way up.

    The other thing the bible taught me was that most JW beliefs hung on very little solid ground. Nothing I saw in the religion remotely resembled the Christ centred early Christian way of life or the lack of enforced creeds and hierarchy. In fact I saw that Paul constantly had to fight against what the WT enforces on a daily basis, namely conformity. 2 Cor 11 can find no better parallel today than among the superfine apostles in the WT.

    The lack of love in the congregations, the politics and power posturing, the creature worship, and the way clearly stated principles such as Matt 5:23-25 and Matt 18:15-17 are swept aside when it suits JW's should have been enough.

    Ranting away with the likes of AlanF on H2O is what eventually led me out. Alan had a way of directly showing up my hypocrisy and that of all apologists and lurkers. They know they are not supposed to be here and either was I but here I was. Why? AlanF called it, I was here because I could not have these discussions with anyone in my congregation out of fear mostly and because of general apathy of other JW's about the teachings.

    I challenge Rosalee and other apologists to go tell their families, friends and elders they are here duking it out with apostates on this website. Or better yet, bring up a discussion had here at their bookstudy or the WT study. Not going to happen is it friends?

    I would bet every apologist/lurker is here for much the same reasons, namely lingering doubts and a feeling of being unloved, lost and all alone. Some are DF'd and doing this to prove to themselves they are not deficient in the JW faith. (religion is a better word)

    AlanF asked me one day if I thought the Good Samaritan story would play out any different in the JW's. Say a DF'd person with a flat tire on a meeting night. How many dubs would stop to help him and risk being late, missing altogether or not doing their part. If Rosalee where to answer that question honestly, she would have felt like I did that post. I never did respond to the question, because there is no response. We all know the answer.

    I struggled for a few years after that exposure, giving my all, but soon had to acknowledge that indeed, the emperor has no clothes. There is no going back to it like in the Matrix. I would hazard no one who has been exposed to the truth about the WT has gone back after leaving. It is not fair to say that just being exposed to the truth about the WT is enough because it isn't. There are many people in the religion who know it isn't the truth, but go because of various reasons, such as family, position, a lifetime of investment, no where else to go, etc.

    I know a dozen or so who would be considered real dubs who know it's a sham but haven't the courage to make a move, and hundreds who just warmed their seats at the KH even just once a year in the hopes that associating will pay off better than the lottery.

    Like myself, the apologist is an apostate in waiting. They are like I was, in denial. Be patient, because sooner or later they will face up and admit the real reason as to why they are here. They are not better than us, they are the same as us.

    No shame in that really!

    Frank75

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    I would bet every apologist/lurker is here for much the same reasons, namely lingering doubts and a feeling of being unloved, lost and all alone. Some are DF'd and doing this to prove to themselves they are not deficient in the JW faith. (religion is a better word)

    Well said Frank 75! How ya doin' man?

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Hmmmmm, Rosalee...................................

    Ask your PO, or Bible Study Conductor, or whomever you respect within the organization - about the history and rationale of Beth Sarim. It is a simple, concise test of the WTS. Let us know what they say. Can you do that?

  • Frank75
    Frank75
    Rosalee - The ones I speak of definitely did not return for family reasons. They got to see the error of their way and now appreciate the truth more than ever.

    "the ones I speak" are right up there with "they and them" of everyday talk. It is an abstract that we are forced to, well, take your word for right? Well not quite.

    Here is the deal sister Rosalee, since "these ones" who have returned due to the "error of their way" have nothing to lose by having their names exposed to us. Since they have already been df'd or DA's as apostates, they cannot be tried again for something they have been forgiven for.

    So give us some names, email addy's and/or ways to verify the voracity of your statement.

    Otherwise we are forced to stick to what all of us know here. The door is one way and you are closer to walking through than you know.

    Tell the elders in your hall about your discussion here and see if they don't hasten you to the door, or at least hand you your hat!

    Frank75

  • Frank75
    Frank75
    Well said Frank 75 ! How ya doin' man?

    Good and you?

    Just spent a couple of 100 $ on fireworks today for the long weekend. Tomorrow I buy the beer.

    Life is bitter and hard up here in the great white north ya know!

    Any new single malt scotches you want to tell me about?

    Frank75

  • Rosalee
    Rosalee

    Actually, Frank, I happen to be one.

    The last thing I'd do is post names on any site.

    You talk big .. post your real name :)

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