Can God see the future? (page 2)

Adolfius

sir82, I think you've said it better than me. So how would a JW explain this one? It must be a topic they've had to address at some point.

trevor

Before anyone can answer this poser we would have to agree on what is meant by God?

According to holy writings God is the past present and future, Timeless, eternal, all knowing and omnipotent. He knows all that is and all that will be and it is all the same. Confused? So am I !

Then again it could just be that the only reality is NOW and all the rest is a trick of the mind, a game of words. Understanding begins where words end.....

Adolfius, The JWs teach that God has the ability to see into the future (as he's all powerful) but he chooses not too, as this would remove man's free will. As sir82 said, since God can never be wrong, if he looked into the future it would remove free will. According to JWs, he looks into the future for certain things (Prophecy) and predetermines those specific events, but chooses not too in general.

Blueblades

The insight book puts it this: Just as you and I can put on any radio or television station, on any channel we choose so God can choose what he wants to see and what he does not want to see. He chose not to see the future actions of Satan, Eve and Adam. He was hoping for the best outcome in the garden of Eden.

Alas! If only he chose to see the outcome, then we wouldn't be in this mess called imperfect, sinful freewill. We are doomed from the get go. All because he would not take a peek. On the other side of the argument is that he did take a peek and let it happen anyway, because in the final outcome all will turn out for the betterment of mankind.

Meanwhile, sickness, suffering and death is the lot of all creation. I don't support the Societies views that are written in the insight book. I'm just pointing it out to you so you can point it out to those brothers that ask you this question: Can God see the future?

Blueblades

Adolfius

Thanks Zico. But wouldn't that still negate free will. If he can see the future, it is a set course in which case we don't really have free will. Just the slightest action by one person on one side of the world could change the course of the future elsewhere. For Jehovah to see judas betray Jesus, everything would have to follow an exact predetermined course.

And why didn't he see the mess he was going to make of creation?

poppers

As Terry said, there is no future - all there is is the present moment unfolding into itself. When is it never "now"? Mind takes "now" and isolates it in memory, creating a "past" and assigns it some sort of meaning based on personal preferences and conditioning. It then takes "past" events from memory (which can only happen 'now') and projects a "future" based on those past events and endows that future with degrees of certainty - this is ALL mental gymnastics occuring within the ever present moment of now............ And as JamesThomas alludes to, these mental gymnastics have a way of covering the pristine moment of "now" as it exists without the contaminating and distorting influence of the mind.

LtCmd.Lore

Before anyone can answer this poser we would have to agree on what is meant by God?

He already specified that he was talking about the god of the Bible, specifically the JW version.

moshe

You don't have to be God to see the future. In 500 million years most of the complex life on the earth will die due to the heat from our expanding Sun as it uses up it's nuclear fuel. Man will probably revert to a hunter gatherer lifestyle unless our governments manage to shift from oil to renewable energy sources within 50 years.

Terry

Either there is "free will" or God can see into the future - one or the other. You can't have both.
If God can "see into the future", "the future" is already written - inescapable. Whatever God would see whenever he chose to look into the future, that would be what would have to take place.

Oh me oh my! I'm just nit-picking, mind you, but.....

If I can "see" that a friend of mind is going to drive while drunk I can also "see" him getting into a wreck and not be tampering with his free will.

But, that is hardly the kind of "see" we talk about when we discuss God's future-peering ability.

So....nevermind!

jaguarbass

I dont know what the JW's think because they got that funky light bulb going and Ive been out since 83. But I ask the same questions you ask. And after researching and googling, I conclude that the stories and information you get from the bible are very suspect and unreliable. Religious people work on the premise that George Bush works on. If you tell a lie enough times a lot of people will believe it.

I mean is not that the way it worked when we were witnesses?

The problem is the bibles full of lies and contradictions but its written down and you have a lifetime to look into it. So now your on the road to freedom. I suspect that a lot of the bible was written after the fact and to try to support a posistion that is rather flimsy.

I dont know if there is a god or not. Evolution has as many problems and questions as belief in a creator, and in my opinion requires more faith than the belief in a creator. But when I say belief in a creator, I do not mean belief in the bible.

I dont believe the bible can pass muster when examined intellectually. But its still around because of the George Bush principal, if you tell a lie enough times and forcefully enough, a lot of people will believe it.

As far as God and the Judas prophecies go, I suspect the bible was edited after the fact, they found some writings some holy man mad while he was high on some substance and they used it for their stories. Messiahs born to virgins have been coming to man kind since long before Jesus.

So whats going on? Some people believe in evolution. But to me the complexities of our bodies life and nature require more faith than I have to accept evolution. And at this point in my life it doesnt matter whether I accept evolution or not.

What is most comforting to me is that we are spirits, having a human or material experience.

I am interested in what Dubs of the new millenium think also .I am looking forward to reading the post.

Another comment I have, after I left the tower in 83 as part of my recovery I read the bible cover to cover 5 times and made notes and somewhat indexed and catogorized them trying to unbiasedly as possible understand the message. I found a lot of scriptures that indicate predestination. God knew and said what was going to happen and to who before it happened. So if your destined to be a pot or vessel for a dishonerable use, thats too bad. Or if your destined to be Judas, your kind of screwed. Like Tom Petty said, " It's good to be king" . These are reasons I do not embrace a biblical explanation for my exhistence.

Can God see the future?

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