Can God see the future? (page 4)

poppers

"Actually the "now" we experience is the "past" by the time it cycles thru the senses and into our consciousness.." ..... If by "our" you are speaking of an individual entity, then yes. The "I" that takes itself to be real is just more "past" - this is the egoic sense. The egoic sense arises in pure consciousness and is a creation of the mind. Without that egoic sense there is just pristine consciousness devoid of anything which forms and then clings to an identity - THAT consciousness IS now, and can only be now.

press any key

Now what if God knew the precise atomic structure of everything. He would be able to determine everybody's reactions to each other and the environment to 100% accuracy.

So it's not so much that he can see the future, in that we don't have free will, but rather he can "mentally" calculate the events of the world forward to infinity.

but if our actions and decisions are the result of our atomic structure, they are outside our control and we dont have free will

in this viewpoint it's all cause and effect, applies to everything else in the universe why shouldnt it apply to us

the original atomic structure and movement determines the next milliseconds atomic structure which determines the next and so on, so the universe is a machine in motion

if you believe in freewill and most people like to in some form - at what point of decision making are we able to step outside of our own chemical and molecular makeup and inject freewill into ours lives

cheers

pak

nvrgnbk

Thank you poppers! I like the clarity of your thoughts.

LtCmd.Lore

but if our actions and decisions are the result of our atomic structure, they are outside our control and we dont have free will
in this viewpoint it's all cause and effect, applies to everything else in the universe why shouldnt it apply to us
the original atomic structure and movement determines the next milliseconds atomic structure which determines the next and so on, so the universe is a machine in motion
if you believe in freewill and most people like to in some form - at what point of decision making are we able to step outside of our own chemical and molecular makeup and inject freewill into ours lives

Although I disagree with the god part, this is probably more true than most of us would like to accept.

Nothing is truely random. Even random number generators on your computer are not entirely random... they are determined based on almost unpredictable elements in the environment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_random_number_generator

You can even predict the outcome of coin flipping if you know everything about it's velocity, mass, weight, shape. And the texture, incline and shape of the table it lands on. And the humidity and density of the air it's traveling through. And a HUGE amount of time to calculate it all. (Obviously the coin would have finished long before you could calculate it.)

Ever played Conways Game of Life? You'll know what I'm talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conways_Game_of_Life

Lore

esw1966

I've been hearing this version:

God knew EVERYTHING that was to happen. He predestined before the world's creation who would accept and deny Him. He knew before creation that He would send His Son to die a cruel death for mankind.

EVERYTHING is following His purpose. For those who SEEK Him, He will bless them more than they can imagine! He is able to work ALL things for HIS glory!

Everything we know and see has been to glorify Him and show that on our own we are nothing.

frankiespeakin

Esw,

EVERYTHING is following His purpose. For those who SEEK Him, He will bless them more than they can imagine! He is able to work ALL things for HIS glory!

So God holds out a big pay off for those seeking Him and the rest can just go to hell is that the idea?

Everything we know and see has been to glorify Him and show that on our own we are nothing.

So God wants everyone to know they are nothing and he is the most important everything, doesn't seem like a very humble or loving God to me. Reminds me of the biblical proverb: "If someone is seeking his own glory, is it really glory?"

LtCmd.Lore

God knew EVERYTHING that was to happen. He predestined before the world's creation who would accept and deny Him. He knew before creation that He would send His Son to die a cruel death for mankind.

So why create anything at all?

Seriously: Even if he had predestined everything to go PERFECTLY, what's the point?

One must also wonder how you can predestine infinity... let's say it takes him one millisecond to predestine a thousand years.... if it's infinite he should still be planning it out.

So either [A: Someday time itself will end. [B: God didn't decide everything before he made it. [C: He IS still thinking about it, and we are just figments of his imagination. [D: He only predestined the first couple billion years, and decided to figure the rest out later. [E: There is no such thing as an omnipotent nerd.

Lore

Terry

Terry looks like Martin Sheen from over here in the UK.

Uh-oh, time to change back the avatar to Mr. Black and White boob man!

Terry

Look at it this way. The more I know about you, the better I can predict your behavior. So what would happen if I knew every single atom of you, would I be able to predict how you were to react to something? Now what if God knew the precise atomic structure of everything. He would be able to determine everybody's reactions to each other and the environment to 100% accuracy.

The downside of what you describe is that God (as maker) becomes responsible for what he has wrought.

If I build a machine that goes awry and flattens people I get sued. Why? The machine did the flattending, right?

No, I set it in motion, designed it and hold final moral culpability.

nvrgnbk

In line with Terry's latest comment, I am reminded of a safety seminar I attended, in Bethel of all places.

Know what they kept saying?

Permission is the same as causation!

I was like WTF!?

Does that apply to the Sovereign of the Universe as well?

Can God see the future?

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