So I finally broke the ice with my fiancee....

by R.F. 27 Replies latest jw experiences

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  R.F.

  Arthur,

  I must agree that mental equation is very destructive. The thing that gets me is the fact that my fiancee readily admits that she isn't quite strong in bible knowledge and, quite honestly, she can't explain the bible chronology of arriving at 607 to save her life. Yet she is afraid because I have scholarly references to Jerusalem not being destroyed then. The WTS can just about do anything and get away with it because of the "unforgivable sin" of questioning the "slave". I really hope and pray that she opens her mind, if not i'm afraid she'll be one to pic the Org over me.
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  Arthur

  The thing that gets me is the fact that my fiancee readily admits that she isn't quite strong in bible knowledge and, quite honestly, she can't explain the bible chronology of arriving at 607 to save her life.

  Yes, I could say that I fit into this category for many years. It wasn't until I seriously started digging into many of these doctrines; (using the Society's own publications) that I began to see how shakey they really were. I would say that the more esoteric and nebulous a doctrine is (despite it's dubious nature), the more convincing it seems to be. A perfect example of this is the Revelation Climax book. How many JWs could easily or adequately provide an explanation to a householder regarding some of John's visions without having to read it right out of the book? Yet, these arbitrary interpretations (many of which I think are utterly silly) are viewed as Gospel truth which is above and beyond all question.

  As far as you fiance is concerned, I sure wish I had some good advice for you. The trouble is, many JWs do not fully comprehend the significance surrounding the 607 date. I know of some elders who feel that it is just a peripheral issue; something that only "apostates" like to "knit-pick" about. I'm afraid that your fiance may come to this conclusion even if she were to be convinced of the inaccuracy of it. Anyone who begins to research the 607 date using only Watchtower publications can easily be swayed by the sophistry and faulty arguments that are used to uphold the date.

  Personally, I would not try to push the 607 issue on her any more. You may be more successful in presenting some of your other findings which can be readily looked up in the Bible. The problem with the 607/587 issue, is that the Bible does not clearly say (although I do believe that it does agree with the 587 date). Other doctrinal issues such as the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" or legalism can be easily discussed and verified by studying Jesus' own teachings as well as the Apostle Paul.
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  R.F.

  Points well taken Arthur.

  The more I think about it, I truly think that she had gotten a little shaken up over the fact of me looking at the outside sources. I will definitely drop the 607 issue and stick strictly with the Bible. I think she really thinks when we do our bible reading together and I bring certain points without WT aid.

  Thanks Arthur.
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  skycaptain

  I think in general many JWs are not not interested in times and dates like they were when i was young in the seventy's .the bethel in London stopped tourist visits to the natural history museum in London , because they have a piece of burnt wall of Jerusalem when it was destroyed by the romans.becauce now like yourself doubts are forming in peoples minds in the Borg.

  I have always encouraged my children to ask questions ,you cant always take things at face value anymore now we have the Internet and the amount of information available, .

  I DID FIND WHEN I WAS A JW , they do not like to be asked hard questions about translation of scriptures,and you must be care full what you say about the borg,or it could be said you are starting to be a bit apostate.
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  sinis

  Why is her mother and her wanting to move all of a sudden? Sounds like an ultimatum. I would be VERY leary, and would not rush into what equates to a used car salesman saying, "price is only good for today". Personally, you might want to look for a nice, non fanatic christian woman, probably a catholic, as they don't put a whole lot of time or energy into their beliefs.
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  TheListener

  R.F.

  I am really sorry to hear about your situation.

  Marriage is not something you should enter into with any sort of "issues" - and your belief system is a major issue. If not to you then it is to your fiance.

  I have a couple questions, feel free not to answer, but at least consider the answers yourself:

  Has your fiance talked about moving with her mother in the past? Or is this a new development? If so, is this the first time she's mentioned it?

  Is it possible your fiance discussed some of your information with her mother? Is the mother a die-hard witness?

  Is it possible that your fiance discussed some of your information with the brothers (i.e. anyone who's a witness besides yourself and most likely and elder)?

  Those are just some thoughts I had when I read your post.

  I will tell you from my experience that this sort of thing is fairly common. I am on, as Arthur rightfully said, that is married with kid(s) and wish things had turned out differently. When I would discuss a point with my wife she would listen. I would be excited and because she was listening so well I would push the conversation ever so slightly further. Not too far mind you! About a day or two after the conversation was over, and I thought pretty much forgotten, my wife would either explode in anger at me for some trivial matter, which would always turn out to be a misdirection of her anger towards me for fading away, or she would be cold to me for a day or two (perhaps so she wouldn't burst out in anger?). Then a couple of days after that, she would return to normal and sometimes even apologize for her attitude or actions and let me know that she loves me regardless of what I finally decide to do spiritually. It was one hell of a roller-coaster. I have realized that if I just don't discuss my biblical research and apostate thinking that she can go about her merry way without a care in the world. Well, mostly.

  Please be cautious before entering into a relationship where she would expect you to support her spiritually (and from her perspective that entails all the extras of JW living like reaching out, field service, meeting attendance, etc etc etc). Put yourself in her shoes. Would you want a mate that didn't really believe the truth anymore and that your mate's main interest was convincing you it wasn't the truth? Probably not. Why enter into a relationship with that kind of baggage. Trust me, it's hard enough to make a marriage work without that kind of crap hanging around your neck.

  You and your fiance deserve to have the type of mate each of you desires. That may not be the same thing anymore for both of you. Better you find out now before it's too late. If, and I don't even know why I'm putting this in my post, but here it goes, if either of you feel you "need" to get married, either because of your raging passion or deeds you may have done together, you need to stop a moment and think about the consequences of each path you could take. Take the lumps for something you've done wrong, if it can be proven, and move on with your life or get married and settle in for a potentially bumpy ride on the pendulum of will she leave the witnesses or won't she.

  Good luck R.F.

  PM whenever you'd like
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  Sunspot

  I think you did a GREAT job and have justifiably planted doubts about the ORGANIZATION that have made her uneasy. It is terribly hard to admit (at first) that you have made a mistake in blindly buying into and accepting everything that currently comes off the WTS presses.

  I have been "out" seven years now, and I can't believe all the scriptures that we never studied as a group at the Kingdom Hall, and how many things are in the bible that do NOT support what the WTS teaches! I wonder how I could have been SO duped for SO MANY years!

  Give it a little rest with her for now....sometimes too much information makes people mentally shut down....and I agree with SINIS comment about the big rush to "move" out of state. I smell a rat there too!

  Let us know how it goes...

  hugs,

  Annie
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  bebu

  first of all, she said that her and her mother probably will end up moving out of state. They've been toying with the idea for a while, but she says she thinks it's definitely going to happen SOON. She said that if we aren't married by the time they move that she might have to end the engagement, because she wouldn't want to put herself thru heartache over being many hours away from each other.

  It sounds to me that she is more committed to her mother than to you. She sounds like she would rather put herself thru the heartache over being hours away from you rather than mum.

  Since when did the Bible say that a man's wife's mother is the head of the household??

  I agree with Sinis too. Tread carefully here.

  bebu