MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...

by hawkaw 589 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  zev

  thanks hawk....my mail is in your in box.

  g'day to ya!

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
• 

  hawkaw

  Zev,

  I have responded.

  MA,

  You can do a check too. I have given you something to think about.

  hawk
• 

  battman

  Back to the top.
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone, -part One -

  First of all thanks for the interest, the comments and the
  contribution already given to this thread.

  I have a request for Simon, if is technically possible:

  - Giving a more " appropriate title/name " to this
  thread i.e.

  " WTBS status as NGO : the FACTS!"

  This thread would contain all the actual posts under

  " Major UN/WTS News- We have a letter "

  plus all the correspondence, e-mail , news article
  and all the other informations provided by Hawks,
  Map, Kent, Trilobite and many others , which
  will allow readers to get a better understanding
  of the past and recent dealings of the WTBS.

  Facts, which in great part have been hidden to the
  brothers and sisters worldwide, and also to all those
  who were entitled to know .

  You collaboration, has been and will be greatly
  appreciated, even the fact to read ONLY and so be
  informed of the FACTS.
  Of course your comments and even contributions
  with additional informations and web links, will be
  always WELCOME. As someone already commented:
  " …these informations should be given the priorities
  and should receive the widest publicity …"

  Now to the specific comments about pages 13 - 15:

  * Gilles letter it is really a " precious gem " for all those,
  who love TRUTH and try their best to EXPOSE LIES!

  As it has been suggestesuggested we should remind
  "brother " Gilles of this interesting WTBS quote:

  "Jehovah's Witnesses are an organization of truth.

  We should want to speak the truth and be absolutely accurate in every detail at all times.

  This should be so not only as regards doctrine but also in our quotations, what we say about others or how we represent them, also in matters involving scientific data or news events."

  - Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook,

  'Accuracy of Statement' page 110, paragraph 9,

  Maybe, it would help him …the next time!

  *Stephen Bates (Guardian's writer) did another piece
  of superb work, in refuting Gilles letter.
  Its logic and thought provoking questions , addressed to
  Gilles, with whom he " ..spoke several days before the article .."
  surely must have left Gilles ..without breath!
  And another phrase worthy of the best WTBS strategy:
  "…there are no factual inaccuracies in my report.."!
  Well what a mild, logical and truthful answer from Stephen
  Bates!! Excellent news for all lovers of TRUTH.
  Thank you very much indeed, to Mr. Bates for the way that
  he reported - impartially - the FACTS.

  And I'm sure that many of you, loved the little touch at the
  end of the letter : "…I'm only bird seed in your demonology!"

  That, allow me to write it, it is truly British wit…at his best.

  Prisca: - thanks for the reminder: "..the guys there don't
  Realize Mr Bates doesn't have to "wait on Jehovah " to get
  the answers'!

  Now for other comments:

  From Ranchette: "..I hope that when the UN sees that WT has made a public statement full of lies about their membership with them that the UN will cough up the original copies of the application and expose them for the liars they are!!"

  I'm also hoping in that….and we are not alone!!!

  And : " …They are being hit from alot of different angles and they are reacting instead of making good decisions."

  Maybe this observation, is more accurate than we might think…

  From Wannahelp: " .. Just because the WT lied is not a bad thing... In fact, the lies will be easy to expose, because they are such blatant lies..."

  True, and…EXPOSED THEY WILL BE !!!

  And also :"… Paul Gilles letter openly admits that they were an NGO... !!!!"

  Now that's GREAT! But weren't we told that it was ALL " an invention",
  An "evil scheme " from those …APOSTATES???

  Plus you gave another reminder to "brother " Gillies i.e.

  "…The Watchtower, 12/15/92, page 22, in an article

  titled: "Why Is It So Easy to Lie?"

  Now consider this definition of the word "lie":

  'A lie is defined as "1. a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive . . .

  2. anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression." The intention is to cause others to believe something that the liar knows is not the truth."

  Great point! Please don't worry, Mr. Stephen Bates will receive all
  This material…I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

  To Messenger: your quote: " *** it-1 726 Enemy ***

  On the other hand, there are many who become God’s hard-set enemies, including Satan and the wicked demons, who gather the nations in opposition to God (Re 16:13-16);

  the apostate “man of lawlessness,” who sets himself in opposition to God (2Th 2:3, 4);

  “Babylon the Great,” whose “sins have massed together clear up to heaven” (Re 17:5; 18:5);

  “the wild beast” out of the sea, which gets its power and authority from Satan the dragon (Re 13:1, 2, 6);

  the two-horned “wild beast,” which promotes worship of that sea “beast” (Re 13:11, 12);

  the “scarlet-colored wild beast” that is “full of blasphemous names” (Re 17:3);

  and those who persist in supporting them
  (Re 19:17-21). These God will destroy.—De 32:41; Isa 59:18; Re 20:10."

  This is really a " TRUE GEM " Thanks, thanks, I do really appreciate it!

  From Osarsif : " . The spokesman of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Portugal says:
  "The registry as NGO was made only to be able to give humanitarian help and defend the human rights in several countries of the world [...] like Angola, …"

  And you have compared with :

  " The spokesman of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Britain says:

  "one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations as a NGO (non-governmental organization) for the sole purpose of getting access to the extensive library of the United Nations."

  Your comment NEEDS NOTHING ELSE . Great!

  Thanks and greetings to you all, J.C. MacHislopp

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone, -part TWO -

  I do have more comments concerning
  the many answers received :

  From Map :

  ".. I don't have the Mags, but looking at "It is Impossible For God To Lie", there is a small one on page 363. Could someone scan, convert, and post this?"

  If by the time I'll post these comments you haven't received it, I'll
  do my best to send it to you.

  Also thanks for another point :

  "…Mr. WTS Spokesman also misused (to the WTS's advantage) the label "registration" in his opening paragraph. I've previously seen other loyal JWs characterize the WTS's "association" as a mere "registration", so I get the feeling that they are intentionally spreading the misuse of the word.

  However, as you caught it, the idiot then later uses "membership", which is the last "characterization" Brooklyn would want him to use. "

  It looks like …there 'll be HEAVY, DARK CLOUDS in "brother" Gilles sky!

  A very interesting information about - Annan Calls for NGO-UN Partnership -

  It explains very clear the role of the NGO' as seen by the United Nations and uses many
  times the term :" P A R T N E R S H I P " and also mentions that " NGO can complement
  the work of the United Nations".

  And what about the mention of : " …church leaders were instrumental in
  the drafting and later the promotion of the UDHR ".

  Sice when, even for the MOST NOBLE CAUSE the WTBS has advocated - collaboration,
  Partnership , association etc. with the members of BABYLON THE GREAT or with the
  " image of the red-scarlet wild beast "???

  GREAT, GREAT piece of information indeed!

  From LoneWolf: Thanks for sharing with us the press release edited by D avid Brown.
  I'll modify it and send again to many different people and newspaper and keep you informed
  By means of the main thread " UN, NGO'S and the WTBS ". I hope that the media will
  Get many messages.

  From Pathofthorns: " …Everything these days, including access to a public library card requires a signature on some sort of application. A signature is probably the single most basic thing required on any application form."

  Yet, this simple fact, seems to escape the attention of " brother " Gilles!!!
  Really taking people ..for a ride. Thanks also for the points about receiving answers:
  Two categories: the - powerful MEDIA's that can receive IMMEDIATE answers,
  And the worldwide brotherhood that faithfully waits on Jehovah.
  He will, in HIS own appointed time, provide all the answers.

  From Anewperson : Thanks for all the comments about the WTBS devious statements
  t the Nations, to the Media etc. I'm quite sure that more on those lines will be
  pblished by the newspapers worldwide.

  To Hawk:thanks for your accurate and specific analysis of
  Gilles letter, refuting the major points :

  ***The legal Corporation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York applied in 1991 but WAS NOT registered (proper word "accredited") until 1992 by the Department of public Information.

  ***Gilles is also wrong that the UN registered the WTS as a NGO. The Watchtower was already an NGO. What the DPI did was "accredit the WTS in 1992 and gave the WTS, as a NGO, an "associate" status with the UN's DPI.

  ***It may have give the writer a library card but they forgot that they must support the UN Charter and the WTS must provide a route (through their magazines) to help promote the UN. They also had to provide 4 references and go through a lot of loops.

  ***Just look at the 1992 press releases at the time the WTS joined. The DPI makes it clear that NGOs need to SUPPORT the UN charter.

  ***If there was no signature on any of the forms, prove it - lets see the forms.

  ***The criteria has alway been there and they would have seen it up front or during any of their annual form submissions.

  - Too bad the criteria was already laid out in 1968 with ECOSOC Resolutions 1267 and 1268.
  …..the 1992 and more recent UN DPI Press Releases shown in this thread clearly point out the required criteria.

  …they had to complete an annual form to keep their creditation that would clearly have provided the criteria.

  …the rules were changed by ECOSOC in 1996 updating the old resolutions 1267 and 1268 and thus, NGOs were notified of this.

  …there is a brouchure produced every year showing NGOs and what they have to do.

  ***Gilles also misses the point that an annual accreditation form must be filled out every year by the NGO and they must annually submit their works showing how they got the UN's message out to its followers or they lose accredation.

  ***Why would Ms. Isolda quote me L. Barry's name (former GB member) along with Ciro's name.

  As for the inaccuracies you wrote:

  " …What Gilles should have said was that in 1991 the WTS of NY, as a NGO, Voluntarily applied to become "associated" with the UN (DPI) and in 1992 (not 1991) were "accredited" by DPI and obtained official "associate" status."

  Gilles forgot the words of James 1:19 " Every man should be swift to hear, SLOW to speak, slow to anger"

  And :

  "…Notice Gilles letter talks about the purpose of getting the "association" but he doesn't explain what they had to do to get the "association" (ie, the criteria).

  So in few words, " brother " Gilles made really …bad !!!

  Another point that you highlighted :

  " …The UN "disassociated" the WTS after the WTS requested termination!!!"

  It is an important FACT to keep in mind.

  In mho you also DESTROYED completely "brother" Gilles
  statement :

  "…Then I look at the Gilles letter where he says the UN made the Criteria up years later. "

  and you gave, AGAIN , the proofs of his inaccuracy …sorry …LIES by giving these
  informations:

  ***In covering criteria I am giving you the internet sites to the 2 resolutions passed by the United Nations Economic and Social Council in 1968 (Resolutions 1297 and 1296). The ECOSOC resolutions 1297 and 1296 of 1968 authorized formal NGO association with DPI.

  The URL link is as follows:
  http://www.un.org/partners/civil_society/docs/ngo1297.htm#association

  http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/ngo-un/info/res-1296.htm

  Resolution 1297 indicated NGOs who want to associate with DPI must meet "the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296 governing consultative status".

  Now look at Principles 2 and 3 in Resolution 1296. Below I have stated them in full:

  "2. The aims and purposes of the organization shall be in conformity with the spirit, purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations."
  "3. The organization shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities. "

  and for all those who still didn't GRASP the MAIN POINT , you repeated - not this means
  everlasting… - but :

  ***"….This means that the Watchtower had to VOLUNTARILY AGREE to "obey" the spirit, purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations or the scarlet colored wild beast."

  Thanks and greetings to you all, J.C. MacHislopp

  P.S. I'll be posting these information on the main
  thread i.e. " U.N., NGO's and the WTBS "
  The many posts/answers are really ... good to be
  missed. Thanks again.

  " One who has an accurate knowledge
  of God's Word will have no problem
  in refuting false religious ideas".
• 

  hawkaw

  Thanks MacH

  Just for the record. Where I stated Resolutions 1267 ans 1268. I should have said Resolutions 1296 and 1297.

  hawk
• 

  Pathofthorns

  In the original Guardian news article it says:
  

  Paul Gillies, the Witnesses' spokesman in Britain, said: "We do not have hostile attitudes to governing bodies and if we are making representations on issues to the UN we will do so."

  Clearly at the time Mr. Gillies fails to seize the opportunity to mention anything about a "library card" but was under the impression that the Society was "making representations on issues to the UN".

  Mr Gillies innitial impression seems to be in harmony with that of the Portugese news article which quoted WT PR people stating that such affiliation with the UN was solely for humanitarian purposes.

  This whole "library card" thing appears to have been invented recently as the simplest excuse to make the least waves amongst the rank and file.

  Path
• 

  hawkaw

  I can't say this enough but that library card is actually an OFFICIAL UNITED NATIONS PASS that requires security checks etc and no matter what you must meet DPI criteria.

  So hey we did go to the UN says the WTS. It was only for going to the library. Yet this same Watchtower wouldn't let those innocent people that got killed and raped in Malawi buy a 25 cent party card. Both actions required the Witnesses to "SUPPORT" a political body. Yet the difference was that the Malawians were poor and did not have any power over the WTS, while the WTS leaders were rich, in control and did as they pleased - sick just sick.

  hawk
• 

  hawkaw

  My thoughts and actions after I read Mr. Gillies Oct 22, 2001 letter to the Guardian can be best summed up in this seasonal "barf alert" picture

  .

  hawk
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Hey Hawk, you did really well on this one and everyone appreciates all the work you did.

  I felt sick too when i read how Gillies brushed off their involvement with the UN. This after women were beaten and raped because they weren't allowed to buy a $.25 polical party card in a one party state and after men spent years in prison because they couldn't accept alternative military service.

  These things can frustrate a person to no end and they will destroy you if you let them. Keep it together man and we will chip away at them, little by little.

  Path

  PS... It would be cool if you could make it to Toronto for a future 'apostofest'. Lots here i'm sure would like to meet with you.