Last night as I was waiting in my truck for my JW roommate to come out from TMS, this lady comes out with a young girl crying. I would say she was about 8 yrs old. They were the only ones out there and I don't thing they saw me in my truck. She had a fly swatter and was beating the hell out of this little girl and the more she hit her (on her bare legs), the more she screamed. She was telling her to "SHUT IT UP". Well my roommate comes out after about 5 minutes of this and the lady stops. When she gets into my truck I told her what I just saw and she said that they shouldn't even bring that child to the meetings because she can't even speak because of some type of mental retardation. Well, that made me even more angry at what I just saw. I'm not against spanking (I had my share when I was a child) but I think that was excessive and not appropriate for a child with a learning disability.
Is this normal parenting behavior for JWs?
by oppgirl63 32 Replies latest jw friends
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jgnat
That woman needs to be reported. My big fear (shudder) is that the child does NOT have a mental disability, but is the excuse this abusive mother uses for her child's odd behavior.
Spanking, allowed by the society. Normal? I would say not.
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oppgirl63
I told my roommate that I ought to report her. But I couldn't see her very well (it was dark) and I don't know her (but my roommate could tell me who she was). I've read on this board about some of the spankings that go on in there so I thought maybe this was normal for JWs. But when my roomate told me the little girl couldn't even speak, I couln't believe it.
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blondie
I spent 17 years growing up as a minor child in the WTS in various US states and other countries. It tends to be a regional/cultural thing in a community whether corporal punishment is accepted. That tends to bleed over into the JW congregations.
I have seen children hit in inappropriate ways at the KH and been brave enough to step in, even turned them one into child services. I was not shy about addressing the issue with people who I studied the Bible with and "return visits" of other JWs.
I would say that out of 25 families in a congregation, one, maybe 2 practice corporal punishment in the 50's and early 60's. By the late 60's and 70's it started to be more out of vogue.
The WTS has started officially backing away from "spanking" since several countries in Europe have made it a crime to do so.
Personally, while I was abused in other ways, we were never physically beaten or hit.
When one small child is being hit in the KH and crying piteously, it can skew your impression of how frequent children are hit. My last years were spent in the midwestern US in farming communities in the 90's and 2000's and I saw less corporal punishment among JWs.
But when you are the kid being hit, it doesn't matter than 24 others are not being hit.
Blondie
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Mum
I agree that this incident should be reported. Can you describe the clothing or approximate size and shape of the woman and child? Even if you can't give them an exact description, I think an investigation might be conducted, making child beating a little less user friendly.
As a person who was regularly beaten with a belt or any number of other objects, I can tell you that the emotional scars far exceed the physical pain. Try to help.
Regards,
SandraC
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Scully
In my jurisdiction, hitting a child with any object - a wooden spoon, a yardstick, a flyswatter, etc. - is considered to be ASSAULT.
Definitely call the authorities. If the child is mentally challenged and cannot speak, she will NEVER be able to advocate for herself. It is up to other people to do it on her behalf. Maybe this mother doesn't have the resources she needs to be able to cope with her daughter's disability and is frustrated beyond her ability to cope. You could be doing them both a huge favor by initiating intervention.
One thing I have noticed among JWs is the almost obsessive need to "prove" that nothing gets in the way of going to meetings, in field service, conventions, etc. There is a great deal of peer pressure and organizational pressure to maintain a certain level of JW related activity. What this woman needs, imo, is permission from an outside authority figure to focus on what's best for her child and herself, regardless of the expectations of the JW Organization. If the child cannot cope with sitting still and being quiet at a JW meeting, then she should not be forced to do so nor should she be punished for her limitations. It's disgusting to me that this child, with all the things she will face in her life, is being beaten for something she cannot control.
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Mary
I would report it. That's absolutely disgusting. And yes, this is not an uncommon occurrance amongst the Witnesses. While they don't officially endorse "beating" your kids, they generally turn a blind eye to anyone who does beat the crap out of their kids. I phoned the cops on one "sister" years ago. We were in an old KH where the bathrooms were downstairs. She was literally whipping her 8 year old with a belt on her legs and back to the point where she was bleeding. The poor kid was screaming her head off. I intervened, grabbed the mother's hand and in no uncertain terms told her what a piece of human garbage she was and threatened to give her a taste of her own medicine. She started yelling at me to mind my own business. I responded I was making this my business. The elders came downstairs to see what all the commotion was about. I told them if they didn't call the cops I would. Two things I can't stand is cruelty to children and animals and it was with great difficulty that I restrained myself from throttling this 'Christian' woman.
The elders totally ignored the wailing child and advised me that we "didn't want to get the authorities involved". Ya right----must'nt smear the reputation of the happiest people on earth right? I didn't call the cops then. I waited until I got home that night. I gave them her name and address and where I saw her beating her daughter and told them that the little girl was in danger and probably needed medical attention. I got in shit for reporting it-----the mother was never privately or publically reproved. I was still a 'believer' then, and could not comprehend how the elders could turn a blind eye to this sort of behaviour.
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Effervescent
Yes, this totally should be reported. That poor child.
This kind of behavior was common occurrance when and where I grew up. My Dad had a huge wooden paddle that he used on us kids with regularity. I remember one time trying to contain my screams and after about 10 whacks (this was a big heavy thing mind you) he yelled, "You better start screaming!"... so obviously I did. But it didn't stop.... 10-15 more whacks.... he says... "Ok, you better stop screaming now!".
Sadistic. I can't even count the times I hid bruises underneath long clothing and refusing to take showers in gym class. And I know I wasn't the only one even within just my congregation. I was too terrified to tell a teacher or adult myself. I just knew it would make it worse. And everyone knew about it and some even whispered at how bad it was. But no one did anything....
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Crumpet
I have seen children hit in inappropriate ways at the KH and been brave enough to step in, even turned them one into child services. I was not shy about addressing the issue with people who I studied the Bible with and "return visits" of other JWs.
I would say that out of 25 families in a congregation, one, maybe 2 practice corporal punishment in the 50's and early 60's. By the late 60's and 70's it started to be more out of vogue.
Blondie its very different here or was in the 80's and early 90's. I was always getting smacked - thicko parents didnt twig that for every smack I would do something twice as bad. My father used to take it upon himself to discipline all the children of single parents who were being unruly because they were bored - usually grabbing them by the ears and dragging them out the back where he would intimidate them. I think Dad was a very angry man. Maybe because I would grin when being hit and look like I was enjoying myself...even if i wanted to cry.
I hate seeing children hit because its pointless and just teaches them violence is the correct answer to everything. I dont care whether it hurts or not. There are other ways to incentivise good behaviour and many parents just cant be bothered.
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DJK
That's not a spanking. That's a crime. This type of crime occurs most often behind closed doors and you have/had the best opportunity to help that child. It will NEVER stop without intervention from a witness. And I don't mean the Jehovah type.