Is this normal parenting behavior for JWs?

by oppgirl63 32 Replies latest jw friends

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  Crumpet

  Perhaps violence as a form of discipline is one area where America is ahead of Britain. If so I approve.
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  asleif_dufansdottir

  When we were JWs in the late 80's (middle of the US) it seemed we were *constantly* getting counsel from the books, magazines and platform about how important it was for children's eternal lives that they should be physically disciplined if they would not sit perfectly still and pay attention throughout every minute of those hours of meetings (to say nothing of assemblies and conventions) per week. If they can't sit still, hit em harder. Make sure you take the diapers off the ones who are still wearing them so there's no 'padding' to keep them from getting the full effect of the spanking.
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  Gill

  This is a very sad and moving thread.

  I hoped that this kind of behaviour was being stamped out in the Organization slowly, but it is sad to hear that it is not.

  I remember when Sweden banned smacking. An elder, here in the UK, said that even if it was banned in the United Kingdom 'we would continue to put God's Law above man's law and continue to smack our children as to 'spare the rod is to spoil the child.'

  It is hardly surprising that in an organization that is controlled with fear tactics, these are the very tactics parents use on their own children. Typical of the mind set that follows their master the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its Governing Body.
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  Scully

  I remember one kid a bit younger than myself - a hyperactive child who simply could not sit still during meetings - would get hauled down to the KH basement regularly for beatings. Everyone knew what was happening - the *smacks* and *wallops* and her screaming "NO DADDY, STOP PLEASE!" could be heard over the speaker on the platform. Nobody did anything, and other parents at the KH would take advantage of the situation to terrorize their kids and give ominous warnings to their children of what would befall them if they didn't sit still.

  The parents did everything to try to control her hyperactivity - put her on a sugar-free, red-dye-free diet, made sure she got plenty of outdoor play time - but it was never enough. She always - every meeting - got dragged downstairs.

  She died of an "accidental" OD when she was about 20. I believe all that abuse she suffered was 99% responsible for where she ended up.
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  blondie

  Unfortunately, children are being treated like this in many other homes. It does not excuse the WTS and its members. The important thing is now to report it right away and let Child Services sort it out. Pay attention to your instincts. Remember too that there are many other types of abuse, verbal, emotional, spiritual, and sexual. We used to hope that our parents would beat us instead of the constant verbal, emotional and sexual abuse. At least we might have some bruises to show outsiders.

  The days of standing by like we might have at the KH can be gone.

  Blondie (abused child, advocate for abused children)
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  Junction-Guy

  I have been in Kingdom Halls in Ohio,Illinois, Kentucky, and Florida. And everyone of those halls, you can find children being beaten. The only Kingdom Halls where children weren't abused, were Kingdom Halls that had few children.
  
  I was spanked by my Mom and Dad both. Im sure I deserved some of the spankings, but for the most part, they were JW motivated spankings, and that is what I detest the most.
  
  I know the women in our congregations used to get together and exchange tips on spankings, they taught each other what to use and what didnt work. One of the women even told my mom to use a wire wig brush. I have seen paddles, wooden spoons, fly swatters, and many more things used in the Kingdom Hall.
  
  Back in the "old" days of the 1970's, children were taken out the front door of the Kingdom Hall, nowadays Im sure they are taken out the back door.
  
  I have told this story numerous times here, but there was a ministerial servant in Ohio who would grab his baby up out of the baby seat and commence to beating him, all the while the whole congregation just smiled like it was nothing, it bothered my grandma and I tremendously.
  
  
  I do think there is an appropriate time and reason for a spanking, I just dont think the JW religion is good enough reason to discipline.
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  WTWizard

  A spanking might be administered when appropriate, and many would never think of it as appropriate. However, when a child has a mental or emotional problem, behavior that is the result of this condition should never result in punishment of any kind. It matters not whether it is hyperactivity, mental retardation, or simply not being able to connect with the outside world. To punish for this is simply idiotic.

  And, these spankings were not actually spankings but beatings. Granted, you cannot do much physical damage with a fly swatter, unless you use the hard end. But repeatedly using it for a normal reaction to being hit the first time is inexcusable. What is going on is a parent, influenced by a cult, trying to force a child to be something that they are not capable of. Whether the punishment is scolding, spanking, or being deprived of something later, you cannot change the reality of what this child is not capable of. Definitely it should have been reported.

  And, maybe the condition should be better managed. Medicine is not always the answer, either. Better management could simply mean education that is tailored to that child's ability. It could mean being allowed more time to run around. It could mean cutting out the MSG and hydrolyzed protein, as well as other hidden sources of MSG. And, if this religion will not accomodate a child that is not able to sit still for two hours at a time or one that cannot learn, then maybe not bringing the child to the meetings should be looked at as part of the management. And you should wonder if you should be going to meetings of such a cold-hearted religion either.
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  nvrgnbk

  This is awful.

  Report this vile creature, please.

  Help stop the cycle!

  Good altruistic concern on your part oppgirl63!
• 

  Euphemism

  Blondie... it's definitely true that region and local culture affect JW's view of corporal punishment. But surely you know that the WT also advocated corporal punishment quite explicitly from the 50's through the 80's? The WT is also very unusual in that it requires even very small children to sit through 2-hour lectures, and to be disciplined if they can't do that. I've been in congregations in Southern California, New York City, Spain, and Russia; and while not every family did it, in all of them it was considered normal and acceptable to spank kids at the KH for not sitting through meetings.
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  blondie

  Having lived in 12 states, 2 countries, vacationed in 48 states and 15 countries, with my eyes wide open as a child and an adult, I agree that the WTS imposes its own culture on certain regions. But it can adjust which it must have in countries that made corporal punishment of children illegal.

  Remember I was a child of the 50's and the 60's in and around many JW families in various areas. Spanking was more prevalent in those years. As the hippie days and "enlightened" thinking of the 70's and 80's dawned, physical punishment waned some depending on the parental examples and regional examples.

  My opinion is not based on a scientific study but on my observations over the last 50 years. Most of my JW contemporaries were not spanked. But the ones that were stand out in my memory. I'm surprised that one young boy is halfway normal. I give credit to his loving grandma that he spent as much time around as he could to stay out of the way of mom and dad's hands. (I was only ten myself at the time.)

  Remember also, I said my employment has put me around the community regarding physical punishment. People can learn though. Here in the state I live in, the trend tends to be kicking and shaking, and shutting them up in dog cages and closets. Non-jws doing it that is.

  Abuse is abuse is abuse, whether they hit you, sexually rape you, emotionally manipulate you, use God spiritually to control you (abuse too). Some forms leave invisible, internal scars.

  I was never afraid to tell a brother or sister to stand down and go calm down and that hitting was never right. I asked them if they worked for me and made a mistake and I slapped them like they did their child, what would they do...right away it spews out, "I'd call the police." Good answer, I'd say, because that's what I'll do the next time. Except for once though, I called anyway.

  I have not led a sheltered life as a child or an adult, JW background or not. I have picked up 15 year old girls high on heroin who went to a party because her mother's boyfriend had tried to attack her and she tried to kill herself. Made my problems seem small in a way. I assisted in a crime lab photography area specializing in photographing beaten children. Now imagine trying to bring dignity and security to a child in a situation like that.

  I have no doubt that JW parents hit their children. Do I think they hit them more than non-JWs...not really. I think all parents hit their children too much if it is even once (unless that child is 6'3, 15, and is going for you with a baseball bat).

  Once again my experience is not scientific, but I find in communities and cultures that value children as a whole, tend to develop fewer families that hit children. I can remember one 13-year-old mother that was comforting her crying baby with a little bit of beer; why, because that is what is mother did, her grandmother, her aunts, her cousins, her father, brothers, uncles. It was hard telling her that she had been given some bad advice and that the baby was going to go to a new home until she learned better skills and found a safer home herself (raped by the neighbor).

  I base my opinion on my own experience and the experiences that life has thrown me in with and those I have chosen to insert myself into.

  I hope everyone who sees a child being hit and screaming, steps in and tries to help.

  Blondie