Please send me any helpful information for my site, whatever your religious or
non-religious preferences. My focus is:
- the 12 or so Jehovah's Witnesses leaders allege that they're part of a lit-
eral 144,000 (Rev.7:1-8; 14:1-5) most righteous Christians, all JWs, the only
ones who will go to heaven--all others of the afterlife are JWs who will live on
Earth.
- the JWs leaders allege that they lead God's sole God-guided religious organ-
ization on Earth--all others religions are condemned as Babylon, and that
they're the only ones of the 144,000 who can decide on the rules for the JWs.
So:
- the JWs leaders have a batch of distinctive rules meant to establish their
exclusiveness (a ban of the medical use of blood and major blood fractions, that
Jesus invisibly turned his attention toward the Earth in 1914, a ban of most
holidays as having worldly pagan or idolatrous connotations, a ban of most gov-
ernment involvement as being too worldly, that Jesus is archangel Michael and
not to be worshipped and the holy spirit is impersonal, etc.), all of which must
be agreed to for membership in the JWs and salvation.
- the JWs leaders allege that their distinctive rules are guaranteed by the
Bible and best related evidence and reasoning.
Catch 22:
- But the distinctive rules are too distinctive to allow that honestly or they
wouldn't be so distinctive.
So my focus is the methods they use to try to make them seem guaranteed
(quotes used misrepresentatively from research books, creating a false impres-
sion of the most reasonable alternatives, forced points, etc.),
especially if anyone is regarded or treated unfairly (persistent disagreement
with any of those rules can cause a JW to be disfellowshipped by friends and
family),
hurt or killed (in a hospital or when the JWs leaders' inflexible rules about
neutrality and worldliness run up against an intolerant political leader and put
followers in harms' way unnecessarily, for no better reason thanthe leaders'
elitism, as in Germany and Malawi).
http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklynindex.htm
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/
WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....
by A-Team 212 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
glenster
-
Narkissos
- the JWs leaders allege that their distinctive rules are guaranteed by the
Bible and best related evidence and reasoning.
Catch 22:
- But the distinctive rules are too distinctive to allow that honestly or they
wouldn't be so distinctive. -
Wayne L
Hi Glenster - One simple fact that is never mentioned in these kinds of sites is that JWs OPT to become one. It's a lengthy process that takes decades in some cases. In the 1950s my friend's mother was the only JW in the family. 20 years later my friend became one. A few years later the father became one. All are still alive and the best, most honest people ever. They had ample time to discover the "truth" so prevelent on this site, and reject Witnesses. But they didn't.
Since it takes conviction to become a JW, one is not coerced or lied to in any way, shape or form. One has years to study, research and decide. One can quit at any time and choose another path.
When you read that there are 1 billion Catholics, that includes those who wouldn't know a Bible if struck on the head with one, those who have never seen the inside of a church and all their pets.
When you read that there are 3 million JWs, that is how many there are. You are not counted as one till you are babtized and registerd. By this time one has gone through the Bible once every 3 years or so, and been exposed to multiple bible versions and vast quantities of literature of all types. If you have any JW books you see what they draw from. No religious literature is banned.
If at any time a fledgling Witness sees anything iffy he can quit and find something else. Since children as a rule don't become JWs, we are talking adults here. Reading the many posts, you'd think exes had a gun to their head.
And what is wrong with a group of honest, good people? When was the last time a Witness drove a plane into a tall building? Or cut a head off with a knife? Or drove a vehicle into an airport? Or gassed people in a subway?
The JWs anti-Trinity? You haven't seen that till you open the Koran. It's Hellfire forever if you believe the Trinity.
Christmas is 100% pagan and otherwise unscriptural. If anyone wants to celebrate it they can choose a religion that permits it. Why would anyone criticize JWs for not wanting anything to do with it? Wayne
-
keyser soze
Hi Wayne,
I am convinced by your last post that you are not now, nor have you ever been a JW. I for one would like to apologize for doubting you on this matter, though I never did openly.
-
Wayne L
Keyser -Thanks. What convinced you? I am on these sites because every JW I ever met is the person we should all be. They raise their children to be honest and good by example. The disgrunteled people on these sites have a beef of one type or another, and from what I see they haven't swapped their JW belief for anything else. Or they're not telling what it is.
I believe there are people who just don't want religion. And I also see that many cannot refute serious Bible points and resort to childish, disrespectful name calling instead. They dare not go after the trouble makers and pick on those who oppose trouble.
To go on and on about blood transfusions and Chrismas and the rare child custody case and ignore the good these people do tells me about their motives behind these sites.
And all the people who "stumped" a witness on their doorstep, Nonsense! You didn't allow him to get back to you. Or you asked him or her a ridiculous non-scriptural Q, or something philosophical. They are not walkiing encyclopedias.
In all my life I have never stumped a Witness. On the contrary, I would set out ot disprove him. Which is why I accumuated an excellant library. I have access to about 70 Bibles plus numerous editions of many, including 20 KJs with commentaries, and apocrypha. I spent many an hour looking for a single lie or misquote, in vain. Please don't mention Mantey.
I was obsessed with proving them wrong on even one main doctrine. Their unimportant doctrines weren't worth my time.
Being the honest person I am, I admit I can't.
Now, if anyone cares to look through the ridiculous Mormon book, with it's KJ mistakes, I'm ready. Do you know it contains the false 1 JN 5:7 three times? Wayne
-
keyser soze
What convinced you?
It was either when you said they were never lied to or coerced in any way, or when you said that they were exposed to all types of literature, that no religious literature was banned. Anyone who has ever been a witness will tell you how completely false these statements are.
-
Wayne L
Keyser - Thanks again. That wasn't the answer I expected. So you are saying I have no knowledge of their teachings or their ministry.
I thought I had a good understanding of it. Well, just to start with a single query, would you say it is scriptural to celebrate Christmas, and unscriptural to forbid it? Are the JWs wrong to forbid it. You do know all about Christmas, I presume. Possibly the best single source of everything Christmas is the Christadelphian book on the subject. It is right out of the encyclopedias and exacting. It is, incidentally, the only thing from this group I would recommend reading. Wayne
-
keyser soze
I agree with you about Christmas and pretty much everything you've said about all other religions. I didn't leave JWs to join another church. But you can't honestly sit there as someone who claims to never have been a JW and tell someone who was for over 30 years that he was never lied to by them. You seem like an intelligent person, but you're clearly not getting your information about them from an objective source. Don't you think whether or not they lie about fundamental doctrines like 1914, secretly join the UN after telling people that it represented the wild beast in Revelation, and protect child molesters are far more important details than whether or not they're right about christmas? Besides, there are a lot of other things that have a pagan origin which they do not condemn. You don't find this hypocritical?
-
quietlyleaving
Wayne
I am on these sites because every JW I ever met is the person we should all be. They raise their children to be honest and good by example.
Glad you appreciate their story because it a convincing one, well packaged and presented and above all it's a very watertight story - too violent for me though - but each to their own.
The disgrunteled people on these sites have a beef of one type or another, and from what I see they haven't swapped their JW belief for anything else. Or they're not telling what it is.
For myself I don't need or want to be in a particular story but understand and accept that others do. I enjoy the freedom of seeing things from the perspective of lots of different perspectives. Do we need to have one set of beliefs?
sincerely and respectfully
quietlyleaving
-
barry
Gday Waynel, Yes the witnesses are unscriptual to reject xmas for the reason in Romans 14.5 One man considers one day more important than another, another man considers every day alike. While this is talking about the jewish festivals it also shows there was great flexibility in the early church where people accepted differing positions.
On hell in the catholic church it is a left over from the middle ages the pope doesnt beleive in everlasting torement.
Also why the preoccupation in useing the scriptures in youre proofs.
Imagine if you were a christian in say 200ad you may ony have a few books of the bible remember it wasnt until about 369ad that the christian church decided on the whole nt as we have it today I t was accually tradition which determined which books were included in the new testiment as you may know the book of clement was not included, the book of revelation was the last to be accepted because some people thought it wasnt written by John.
So it is with the trinity it was accepted very early sure not all the details had been thrashed out. The creed of Ceasareer was developed into the Nicean creed and the creed of Ceasareer was accully a baptisimal statement. In fact their were many baptisimal statements all haveing the same patern. The earliest baptisimal statement was found only about 100 years ago and is as follows .
We beleive in God the father maker of heaven and earth
And in his son Jesus Christ our lord
And in the holy spirit
And in th eforgiveness of sins.
Does this statement look familure? Isnt it the framework of the Nicean creed?