by MichaelM 101 Replies latest jw friends
"Sorry bout' that, no they have changed that view also, they don't believe everyone that is a JW will die at arma....so kind of them isn't it."
lol, i think you meant to say 'isn't a jw', now THAT would definitely be new information.
what's the standard now? is it a 'we're not sure, only god knows, but better to be safe than sorry' kind of thing?
thanks.
MichaelM
I've been studying with the JW's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...
No KoolAid, but crazy as?
I don't quite get the jist of things but I feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says..
Becuse it IS more about what the WT teaches than about what the Bible says.
I never open my bible.. I'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
Which is exactly what they want (see above)
I really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.
Yup, and some of them may eeven be sincere. Others are following directions; just as JW's oare taught how to talk on the doors, they are taught how to treat interested people. Experts refer to the treatment dished out to newcomers as 'love-bombing'.
But i'm just having some issues.. I mean.. They translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
Seems? You're 100% right.
What really urks me is they don't give any info on the translators and they say the credit goes to God.
Well, if they gave details of the translators the credentials and learning of the translators could be questioned. It is widely believed some of the translation commitee of the NWT had no expertise in Hebrew or Greek.
Trhere are things the JW's teach that I think make sense. No hell(Why would a loving god permit eternal torment? it's illogical and hateful).
And? Some of the teachings of Moonies, Scientologists and Mormons make sense. Doesn;t mean they have 'truth'. Doesn't mean your quality of life won't go down if you get involved with them.
The trinity seems real iffy.
Try god being a bit iffy. You seem to assume there is a baby in the bathwater. Have you actually checked?
The point is.. Something isn't right in this society and i can't place my finger on it.
Yup. It is the fact you're obviously intelligent that gives you this 'gut feeling' that tell you all is not as it should be. Your gut feeling is right.
I don't know..
Yes you do know, you know something isn't right. You just have a desire for everything to be that simple like they say it is, for everything to end up okay like they say it will, that your emotions are trying to overwhelm the gut reaction your intellect is giving you.
I'm just a lost person.. wanting to please the creator but afraid that one way is the wrong way, and i'm too stupid to find the right way. Blah. Why is this path so difficult? I came here a long time ago and after finding out this isn't quite the Watchtower society type of forum... I ran off because people had things to say about why I wanted to be a JW.. Perhaps I'm afraid of finding things out I don't want to know? This all started with me reading this stupid anti JW book by David Reed.. I didn't even mean to get my hands on it my buddy just happened to have it lying around..
Look, do not trust the JW's. They are like car salesman trying to sell you a car, and then when you say you want to know what other owners of that car thought about it, telling you not to speak to ex-owners of that car as all ex-owners are liars.
If someone trying to get you to invest in something told you not to talk to people who had invested in the past you'd KNOW they were a charlatan.
Why is a religion any different?
For some reason my paragraphs didnt work..
Maybe so, but your brain obviously does work. Now all you need to do is listen to it.
When I came back last year that was one of the things I asked and my sister said they changed their thoughts on that and don't teach it anymore, the answer being that it is impossible to reach everyone before the end so Jehovah will judge their hearts at arma. Will scout around for any w/t that says it.
It is true as I have used this in front of other witnesses and at the doors, when the householder bought it up it was said "no we don't teach that, it is up to God to judge the heart condition" so it is definatetly a changed view.
Cheers
Why would a loving god permit eternal torment? it's illogical and hateful
Welcome Michael. Use that same logic and ask yourself , Would a loving God only allow the JW to survive and kill everyone else on earth simply because they did not feel like listening to two stranges knocking at their door on a Sunday morning? Also ask what message do they bring to the door? Is there a message or just a magazine or book placement? If JW were really interested in reaching as many people as possible because they truely believe that they are the only ones on earth that have the "truth" would they not use modern technology and the media to reach many people. Going from door to door may have been the only means of getting the message across in bible times but it's not very effective now. Even the Avon ladies don't do this anymore! Would God really only use a hand full of Americans to govern His organization or should the governing body be a bit more ... shall we stay colourful, for lack of a better discription. Why is it that The JW only started in 1800s what happened between the time Jesus was on earth and the 1800s? If God really wanted to use only one organisation wouldn't He have made sure that they were known and organised a long time before Charles Russel came along.
These are just a few questions that made me think!
I also went thru the trial of grueling afternoon services and Tuesday Revelation Since there was no pressure against it and nobody asked, I also contined services at my normal church. I did this with a friend and we both decided like you after about three months.
First, Revelation says not to change add or subtract to the Bible, but that is clearly the NWT. It changes words of attributed Jesus himself, just to be anti-Catholic iand also anti-Protestant.
Protestant religions are started by social movements. People get together to agree and form it at a singular place and time. Even Christianinity was formed by social forces. Over time these conditions themselves change and or the Catholic Chruch changes. I think the WTS has sort of frozen itself in time. Many WT tracts profusely attack the Catholics and Protestants along with their Bible studies, so that you understand why they created the religion. But they unremittingly come back to that precept.
Is it really smart to not be involved in politics at all. If so how can we function in a democracy?
Is it a good idea never to give or accept blood even for medical reasons?
The WTS accepts the idea of angels and demons as spirit creatures. Many of the Saints have written that the cross is effective at getting rid of evil spirits. If the WTS wants you to disbelieve in hell, is it any wonder why they don't want to see you bring any cross around them?
I was just like you at one point in time. I spent 10 years in the Watchtower.
I remember being on freeminds.org back in 1998 and thinking that it was all made up. I was so convinced that JWs had the truth at the time that I was totally oblivious to the problems the religion has.
You've done the right thing by doing your research. Admitting that you're confused is a good thing! Don't feel you need to have all the answers, that is something they are training you to feel.
I would suggest you read 'Crisis of Conscience' by Raymond Franz for an accurate history of the religion.
Sorry bout' that, no they have changed that view also, they don't believe everyone that is a JW will die at arma....so kind of them isn't it.
Please document this change. I was Jw for 40 years and it never changed substantially. Oh, the occasional Jw would defend the doctrine with some personal comments like that at the doors, but officially, I don't believe this has changed. If so, I would like to see where please.
Jeff
First welcome to the board...we are glad that you are here with us.
The gut does not lie...your gut is telling you something is wrong..there is plenty wrong...please listen to your inner voice, it is warning you...to RUN.
Leslie
From Michael, "Why is this path so difficult?" What is it you want, certainty about which teaching is "right"? If that's the case then there will always be difficulties because there are so many, and who is the judge as to the correct one is anyone's guess.
If on the other hand you want peace and fulfillment then there is no need to seek it in anything outside yourself, there is no need to follow a religion or philosophy and adhere to ancient words from dusty books. If what you want is peace and fulfillment look to see what's already here and unchanging in this very moment - rest in the fullness of what you actually are rather than what you imagine yourself to be.
When I came back last year that was one of the things I asked and my sister said they changed their thoughts on that and don't teach it anymore, the answer being that it is impossible to reach everyone before the end so Jehovah will judge their hearts at arma. Will scout around for any w/t that says it.
It is true as I have used this in front of other witnesses and at the doors, when the householder bought it up it was said "no we don't teach that, it is up to God to judge the heart condition" so it is definatetly a changed view.
emptywords,
This is a quote from a very recent WT (May 15, 2006 -- "Are You Prepared For Survival?" -- paragraph 8) :
"Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization."
