by MichaelM 101 Replies latest jw friends
*blinks* Ahh, im heading to bed here in just two minutes.. but to answer your question I stopped using my NWT and am now using the Macarthur Study bible (NKJ) and a regular Red letter edition of NKJ.
My baptist friend swears by the NIV (New International Version?).
That almost made me feel VERY uncomfortable
MichaelM - All doubts about their teachings aside, your comments about your feelings throughout this thread about everything, your fears/concerns are your HUGEST signs about what to do. Trust yourself and your feelings on this, even if you cant get your head around all of the doctrinal arguments for and against. All of the reservations you have expressed are HUGE red flags. I'm not sure why, but when I was reading through this thread again, I was thinking of what a child 'about to be abused' might feel/go through when someone they trust/want to trust/loves entices and persuades them into the abusive situation. Your feelings are your instinctual awareness about how to handle potentially abusive situations. It doesnt matter if you cant 'debate with them' or concretely and poignently express why you think they are wrong on certain points. That you instinctually have a knowledge that something 'IS' wrong about this whole thing is what matters, is what can protect you. A real friend will accept and respect your feelings/beliefs on matters such spirituality; they will not hound you and persist on changing you; any one who INSISTS that you are wrong and lost without their brand of religion is NOT a real friend, no matter how nice they are at other times.
Yes, your a good guy and even though your boring, you have an open mind and like listening to things i have to say".
Michael, what a heartless thing to say to a friend!!! You are NOT boring!
And did you notice what he was saying?? he was equating you listening to the things HE has to say to having an open mind. meaning if you don't agree with everything he says, your mind is closed.
That's how they get followers, they tell them to have an open mind to the ''truth'', and then tell them to ''shut their minds'' to everything else! (how is that being open-minded?) and those minds become rusted steel traps, never letting anything in ever again...
A mind is a horrible thing to waste.
Sheeze...."a little boring".....not very nice at all.
I really like the idea of involving yourself in the community a little more. My daughter just helped on a "Habitat for Humanity" build. After she had accessorized appropriately (Pink hard hat and matching $18 work gloves), she had herself a ball. Well, actually, the women fought like cats and she didn't get nearly as much finished as she hoped... But she learned a lot!
I used the NIV for years. It's well written and easy to read. Nowadays I read from various translations. You can test some out at www.blueletterbible.org or http://www.biblegateway.com/ For a funky translation in modern vernacular, you might enjoy "The Message".
John 3:16 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
16-18 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him
Michael,
Well met. I grew up in Albany, Georgia. I live in Pennsylvania now. I am a Star Trek fan, I play card games (well, just about any game that requires some thinking and memory), and I enjoy Dungeons and Dragons (both "by the book" and freestyle, but I like the closer-to-story-telling freestyle better).
You mentioned, "his logic will somehow demolish it, twisted or not." His "logic" style is sophistry. He learned it from the organization he represents.
(courtesy of Merriam-Webster) sophism: an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid; especially : such an argument used to deceive
Try thinking about this from the perspective of a character in a D&D game. Suppose a Dungeon Master's NPC is trying to convince you to do something that would prevent you from adventuring again until you decide to finally ignore what the NPC is saying, something that would possibly cripple you, and something that would require you rejecting all your former player character compadres unless they also choose to do this. Now suppose the NPC tells you that one of the Gods will grant you eternal life if you do this, but it will not be an eternal life of adventure, it will be an eternal life of servitude to the God. All you have to do to get this eternity of servitude is consume your current life (i.e. the life you know for sure you actually will get) with servitude.
What would you choose?
That's what you are being offered, and it isn't safely removed from you by only affecting a few sheets of paper and the hours you have invested in character development. It is your life.
Check out these threads:
What Does the Bible Really Teach?
Sophistry Lessons—JW Baptismal Prerequisites
I don't think you are going to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a baptized JW for 21 years and until I became open-minded I did not see the Corporation's self-serving reasons behind the doctrines. You are sensing it already, so you are not in any real danger.
Most importantly,
LIVE LIFE
Although the Watchtower teachings seem to sound good, when they are analyzed and subjected to the very same scrutiny that the WTS expects "every OTHER" religion to but put under----they fall short in the evidence and proofs that are ARE the truth or even HAVE the truth. The WTS has a hideous past history of false predictions and goofy doctrines that they have been forced to keep changing because they have BEEN false!
It is easy to make the claim the "Jesus chose THEM" in 1918.....and build a religious book publishng company around this fantasy---but SCRIPTURALLY PROVING THIS presents a dilemma for them. It is all based on supposition and the Grand delusions stemming from the imaginations of the Governing Body----who you MUST obey when baptized. (WHATEVER they happen to BE teaching at present!)
Welcome Michael. Use that same logic and ask yourself , Would a loving God only allow the JW to survive and kill everyone else on earth simply because they did not feel like listening to two stranges knocking at their door on a Sunday morning? Also ask what message do they bring to the door? Is there a message or just a magazine or book placement? If JW were really interested in reaching as many people as possible because they truely believe that they are the only ones on earth that have the "truth" would they not use modern technology and the media to reach many people. Going from door to door may have been the only means of getting the message across in bible times but it's not very effective now.
This IS something to give thought to...and with the advent of this wonderful internet---the secrets and the unChristian behavior OF the Watchtower (and the JWs) has been brought out into the open for ALL to see. I accepted a "free, home bible-aids study" in 1969, and knew NOTHING about the bible. I ended up being baptized a JW, and raised five children and a grandchild in this despicable form of religion.
I have robbed THEM of knowing a warm loving and forgiving Jesus Christ, and robbed them of countless milestones and memories that they will never have on Christmas or birthdays, Proms, Scouts, etc. I wasted 30 years of MY life (and theirs) serving the men of the Watchtower and doing my best to live up to THEIR REQUIREMENTS that they claim are GOD'S REQUIREMENTS, which YOU are now in the process of learning.
I am now almost 66, and have the most shredded and dreadful family situation that I could have NEVER DREAMED would ever happen to us.....all because I chose to leave the WTS seven years ago. I saw to much and I knew too much, to even WANT TO BE known as "one of Jehovah's Witnesses" any longer. My conscience and my integrity were far too precious to me to sacrifice to the Watchtowergod for another moment.
PLEASE LEAVE while you still can....and yes, many of the JWs are "nice", but they are also just as terribly misled and misinformed by the leaders of the WTS as the members of those "religions" we have seen and heard about on the news. Their minds have already been successfully stolen by the deceitful and ever-changing teachings of the men of the WTS. I mean this with all my heart. I dearly wish that WE had been able to access this information BEFORE WE got baptized.....it would have saved me a lifetime of wasted effort with nothing to show for it but now being shunned and treated like pondscum by my own family that still follows the WTS directions.
hugs,
Annie
Welcome Michael. Use that same logic and ask yourself , Would a loving God only allow the JW to survive and kill everyone else on earth simply because they did not feel like listening to two stranges knocking at their door on a Sunday morning? Also ask what message do they bring to the door? Is there a message or just a magazine or book placement? If JW were really interested in reaching as many people as possible because they truely believe that they are the only ones on earth that have the "truth" would they not use modern technology and the media to reach many people. Going from door to door may have been the only means of getting the message across in bible times but it's not very effective now.
I agree with that and it helps me in my thinking. It saddens me that you had to experience such a thing first hand without the help of others as everyones helping me.I'm really glad that I found this place to chat with you guys I'll respond more to tehse informative posts when I get back.... and.. I'm gonna post in a little while actually.. I just made insta plans for food, and my friend is bringing me over an New International version of the bible. I'l be back soon to post. Oh! and if anyones still interested, not to be selfish, but i can tell anotehr story of todays talk with Russ and what he said to me about how i'm starting to sway away more from the watchtower and how he thinks im "hoopy" and that i'm too wishy washy. I'll post in an hour or a bit longer.
Ehh.. To skip through things, He knew I was angry, I wanted to lash out at him because of my growing anger torwards the Watchtower. He keeps complimenting me with my Logic and how he knows I won't go to some stupid Baptist Church. He kept going on about how if theres True teachings then there must be false teachings and that is what I am recieving now from everyone else. But i'm just blabbing on because you guys already knew this..
I feel kinda bad now because he didn't mind me when I said I wanted to stop my Bible Study. He made a prediction that i'd go around and try to find my spiritual guidance and I wouldn't and I would go straight back to the witnesses. I'm a very undecisive person at times and i'm a "what if" kind of person. Which I am, but he frequently lets me know this. He could tell I didn't really want to move into his Cabin but he invited me out Saturday and told me to bring friends for a bon fire and he said "you'll see what its all about an dhow fun it is out here!".
I know what you guys are going to say, but.. Gah I feel crap now if I don't go. I'm really afraid to tell to his face what I'm thinking. I've broken down the issue. This is what I see. I want a father figure who can give me structure like him, but if I don't become a Jehovah's Witness then I feel he won't be that figure. Infact I can almost gaurantee it. If I stray away and do my own thing, i'll fall back into my confusing life that I have trouble taking order to simply because I just don't have that feeling of "structure" like I keep saying to myself. I'm thinking now though.. As I type this. Perhaps.seeking this Spiritual Guidance outside of the Witnesses will give me that strong safe feeling. Maybe if I read the Gospels and do a strong bible study and maybe check out a few churches here in town and find one that I seem to like.. Maybe i'll find that feeling that Russ gave me. *shrugs* I dunno.
All doubts about their teachings aside, your comments about your feelings throughout this thread about everything, your fears/concerns are your HUGEST signs about what to do. Trust yourself and your feelings on this, even if you cant get your head around all of the doctrinal arguments for and against. All of the reservations you have expressed are HUGE red flags
The interesting thing about this is.. I was told by the Witnesses to not trust my own heart. Because my heart is one of the strongest weaknesses that I have because we are imperfect and have inhereted sin. That I should trust Jehovah God and his Organization instead of my own heart.
Ah well, I'm off to play some pool with a friend. I dunno if i mentioned before, but my friend went to this one bookstore and bought me a NIV bible, brand new! It's really neat. The pages are thicker than normal bibles but its text is TINY! *squints* >_<
Why does there have to be spiritual guidance out there? Because humans have been searching for it? We searched for the philosopher's stone that would transmute lead to gold as well as the fountain of youth and we found neither. Just because you do not find something outside the witnesses that satisfies your quest doesn't de facto mean they are right either. Just something to chew on.
I was told by the Witnesses to not trust my own heart. Because my heart is one of the strongest weaknesses that I have because we are imperfect and have inhereted sin.
How do you know that it isnt Holy Spirit itself that isnt instructing your heart and giving you the warnings you are feeling? If we were to never trust what we feel then you have absolutely NO chance of ever recieving Holy Spirit. No man, no organization can give you Holy spirit. Even JWs who consider themselves 'annointed' made that decision based upon a FEELING that they had, something they 'knew in their heart', that they are of the 'annointed class'. If you are not to trust your heart, and part of your heart (even if it is small) may be suggesting you should join, shouldnt you 'not trust' that feeling also? It is ridiculous reasoning to tell you that you cant ever trust your own heart. Our hearts are not %100 deceptive. Your 'friend' just doesnt like the fact that your heart is contrary to what he wants it to be.
As I mentioned in my other post, the parrallel between their reasoning and trying to get you to NOT trust yourself is EXACTLY the same pattern used by Child Abusers against their victims. Very, very frightening.
