Voluntarily Confessing & Then Getting Reproved or Disfellowshipped

by minimus 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  minimus

  Do you realize how many contrite Witnesses went to the elders to make things right with God and wound up getting disfellowshipped or privately or publicly reproved? A lot.

  Did you or anyone that you knew ever get "disciplined" unfairly? Many times, NO ONE would ever know about anything unless it was voluntarily brought up. Still, the elders are charged to make sure that a person is truly repentant or else "leaven" may be allowed to exist in the congregation. So.....even if you're truly sorry about a matter and YOU personally, express whatever the issue is-----you still might very well get df'd!

  No wonder "secret sins" are committed all the time.
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  choosing life

  I have known several who confessed to the elders out of sincerity and a bothered conscience about a personal matter. The elders would never have known otherwise and they were sincerely repentant. However, all were either publicly reproved oe disfellowshipped.

  I read in the elder's manual that they should take into consideration if the person came to them voluntarily to confess. It also said that the amount of possible bad publicity should not affect their decision as to disfellowship or not. What I have seen, however, is that the publicity is often the deciding factor. A few times, ones were told they believed that they were truly repentent, but beacause of the public knowledge (other people who knew of the incident, but never told), they would have to discipline them to set an example for the rest.

  So when they say they only disfellowship unrepentant ones, it is a huge lie. The number one consideration is making it look like the jws are above everyone else, ie the reputation of the congregation. They care little to nothing about restoring the faith of a sincerely repentant one.
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  Open mind

  So when they say they only disfellowship unrepentant ones, it is a huge lie. The number one consideration is making it look like the jws are above everyone else, ie the reputation of the congregation. They care little to nothing about restoring the faith of a sincerely repentant one.

  I deg to biffer on this. I served on about 15 Kangaroo Courts and I never saw this. Granted, we couldn't read hearts, but we weren't ever out to GET anyone. If they'd tell us what we needed to hear, we never second-guessed them. Well, unless their repeated actions contradicted their words.

  As for the private reproof thing. If a person confesses something of a judicial nature, private reproof is the minimum sentence. I could dig up the quote if you need it, but it's in the "Head Window Washer" manual.

  Open Mind
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  minimus

  Technically, you're only supposed to be disfellowshipped due to unrepentance. But I know of COs TELLING the JC that this person must be df'd. That I know for a fact! Whether the person was or wasn't sorry wasn't the issue. An example had to be made and this certain fellow was a so-called "doctor" but he counseled many Witnesses, esp. females. He was a questionable "therapist" to say the least. The Society got a number of calls regarding him. some loved him and others didn't. Eventually, he was df'd (which was gonna happen no matter what) and he attended EVERY meeting for YEARS and the elders refused to reinstate him. Nothing he could do or say ould matter. The powers that be wanted him out.
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  Open mind

  Hey there Red Dot,

  I don't doubt what you said for a New York Bethel Service Department Minute.

  But for the routine fornicatin', drinkin', dopin' stuff by average R&F don't you think perceived "repentance" was the criteria?

  Open Mind
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  under_believer

  Happened to me. Was a pioneer + MS, messed around with a girl in another congregation. No "porneia" was involved (god what a stupid concept that is.) Two different committees handled the situation because we were in two different congregations. They came to different conclusions. I was "deleted" (another stupid word) as a pioneer and MS and publicly reproved, she wasn't reproved at all. The situation was also marked by incompetence and fumbles; no communication, a several-week-long delayed judgment decision, one elder not even present at the final meeting, inability to explain why I was being punished in that way in light of the fact that there hadn't been any genital contact, and extreme rudeness to me when I wanted to ask questions and discuss it later--"I could care less how you feel about your discipline" is a direct quote from one of them.
  
  I came to the elders out of a sincere desire to make things right with God. I really thought I had to confess and accept whatever they had to dish out in order for Jehovah to hear my prayers. I went in there and described to them (as you are supposed to do) every single last explicit detail of our encounter, like I was dictating a Penthouse Letters submission to these three middle-aged men.
  
  I'll tell you what, though, it was the last time I made that mistake. Later when I did similar "bad" things with another girl (who I later married, BTW) I didn't even consider talking to them about it.
  
  I have never trusted any elder as far as I could throw them ever again. Sure there's some good ones out there, but they are far outweighed by the bad ones and you can never know which ones you're going to get when you go to them for "help," putting aside the whole dubious concept of allowing some human to intermediate for you in your relationship with God.
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  Open mind

  Under_believer,

  Ahhh, good times, huh? Sounds like you didn't exactly get the cream of the window washer crop for your JC, especially with that "I could care less" quote.

  Just so you know, the only reason I'm adding to this thread is so that any lurkers don't grab onto a perceived "exaggeration" and use it as an excuse to defend the dubs.

  So, having that out of the way, please humor me while I comment on a couple items from your post. Mainly legalistic crap.

  she wasn't reproved at all

  A nit-picky lurker will say that's probably not true. And they may be right. Did she tell you she wasn't privately reproved? Do you believe her? The reason I ask gets back to what I stated in my earlier post. Private reproof is the minimum sentence. Unless the JC determined that no "gross" sin occurred, she would have been at least privately reproved. Just because no genital contact was made, doesn't mean she wasn't guilty of "loose conduct" which, although it's totally subjective, is a judicial (gross) sin. It's pretty rare for a JC to be convened and have the person be totally exhonerated. Usually guilt is pretty well established before the JC.

  As for her's being private and your's being public, well that's totally the individual JC's call. And sure, politics, personalities, etc will all come into play. Can't you just feel the Spirit at work here?

  I have never trusted any elder as far as I could throw them ever again.

  Good advice. Myself included.

  Open Mind
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  blondie

  If you say you are guilty to these men, I'm not surprised that some kind of "punishment" is meted out. The least severe is the "just between you and me" type some elders practice among elders. Then privately reproved before all onlookers.

  I have seen people wrongfully reproved...but they are supposed to take their lumps until God reveals the elders' flaws just like Joseph.
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  minimus

  Open Mind, the majority of cases I've seen are repentance based .
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  Blueblades

  Under Believer, Open Mind , Minimus. I was on a case two congregations, fornication, C.O. tells us that we are to disfellowshipp the brother. We meet with the sister and the other congregation. We do as we are told and df the brother, the sister gets private reproof from the elders in the other congregation.

  One of my own was heart broken over something he did and wrote a letter to the body, met with them. They df him when they told me that they only wanted to help and made a verbal promise that all they would do is counsel him and not df him.

  Soon after I'm deleted, actually I stepped down and gave the prayer the night it was announced. The C.O. told the body to have me close with prayer to ease the minds of the brothers and sisters. This has never been done before as far as I can ascertain.

  The fade soon followed and we are gone. I trusted only two elders out of nine in the congregation.

  Blueblades