by minimus 34 Replies latest jw friends
The JW elders are not a homogenious lot they have different educational and social backgrounds so it's not surprising that they react differently when faced with a specific issue. Some are more narrow minded and trigger happy and some are more broad minded and flexible.
It's the same with university education and growing beards. But of course they shouldn't censure someone repentant that willingly admitted a "wrong doing".
My brother voluntarily confessed things to the elders twice, and twice DF'd.
BB
Open Mind, this was directly confirmed by conversation with elders involved with her case. There was never even a "judicial committee" convened on her side. She just met with a couple guys, told them what happened, and they decided she was doing ok and repentant enough and there was no need for further judicial work.
Hello again under_believer,
Before I slog through any more of this, just want to say that I hope you know that I hold the whole Kangaroo Court process in contempt and won't be sitting on any more of them. That is, of course, unless I'm a solo invited guest somewhere down the line. Even then, I doubt that I'd honor the "process" with my presence. I would only go if tactical reasons dictated it.
OK, back into the sewer I go. You stated:
Two different committees handled the situation because we were in two different congregations.
That's why I assumed she had at least been privately reproved. Now it turns out there weren't two "committees" after all. If only two brothers met with her, that's not a Judicial Committee. (Why, oh why, am I capitalizing that crap?)
Your story is making more sense to me now. You said "porneia" was not involved. If it was porneia, a JC is automatic. But since it wasn't, it gets even greyer. Deciding whether or not your attitudes constituted "loose conduct" is entirely subjective. I think greendawn stated it well:
Some are more narrow minded and trigger happy and some are more broad minded and flexible.
Even if you and your girlfriends "heart conditions" were identical in Jehober's eyes, the results from throwing yourself at the "mercy" of an eclectic mix of "older men" can vary greatly. Especially when it comes to something as nebulous as "loose conduct".
I'm glad you don't submit yourself to the Kangaroo's anymore and I'm truly sorry you suffered as you did.
Open Mind
I've never for the life of me understood the logic behind a system where the transgressor confesses to the human entity charged with determining and meting out the punishment.
I believe the incongruity of the whole situation was recently realized in California. As Jim Whitney has pointed out, the CCJW can no longer use the claim of clergy-pentitent privilege to conceal their Judicial Committee actions because these JC actions were ruled as adversarial situations and not the healing of confession, as the Catholic Church employs.
I apologize Open Mind, the first post contained a misstatement about whether there were two committees. I had a committee, she didn't. My mistake, I see how I caused confusion. :)
Granted, we couldn't read hearts, but we weren't ever out to GET anyone. If they'd tell us what we needed to hear, we never second-guessed them.
Well, I know it may be hard to believe that the elders would actually be out to get someone, and if it hadn't happened in my own family, I'd never have believed it either (or possibly be on this forum).
My teen daughter and some other girls did some normal teen stuff.
A committee was formed-no elders with any "fact finding" just talking first-with all the girls.
Before the first committee was held, the head elder told my husband that this looked like a "girl gang such as ones that were in his affluent neighborhood that smoked, took drugs, had casual sex with men for initiation, and were lesbians."
My daughter had never even been anywhere without an adult present until just a few weeks earlier. She was shy, an honor student, never in any trouble with anyone at school, or at any time. I was so incredulous that I was I guess stupified and couldn't believe that I was hearing these words and knew they had nothing to do with my child.
Well, I was wrong. They spent over two and one half hours trying to force her to admit to commiting fornication, even though he had already told my husband there was no accusation of it, witnesses to it, or confession of it. When she would not admit it, they hung their heads, saying, NO, NO, and finally told her they would not believe her. They made her read every condemning scripture in the Bible. The wording that he used was scripted. Down to the words he used when she was disfellowshipped, "And if you are still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, then you can take some comfort in knowing that Jehovah can read hearts."
The accusations, strategy used, and outcome was all decided and written down before she ever got into that room. Oh, yes, because they WANTED TO GET HER. Why? We will never know.
B^$#@&*$
> had casual sex with men for initiation, and were lesbians
WTF
UB-
WTF exactly. These girls Had been friends since the age of 10 or 11and had little parties and sleepovers at one another's houses with supervised activities. This man said, "Little girls sleepovers are lesbian training grounds." So I guess that is where that accusation came from.
In the J.C. he wanted to know if there was any "innapropriate touching" while they were in bed. He wanted to know if they had ever showered together, or "washed each other" in the shower. Maybe when one of them was about 8 and another 10 they showered together.
I remember showereing with a friend when I was a little girl and no one thought anything of it.
I need a shower just thinking about that disgusing man.
I think he was trying to get off on some power trip. It's easy to have power over a 16 year old girl that weighs 100 pounds and has never been spoken to in such a way before.
This isn't criticism, because I am at a totally different place right now than you were when this happened to you.
I will never, ever allow my daughter to be treated in that way without some serious consequences. She is one of the treasures of my life. Some middle-aged elder sicko treats her like that, even ASKS any kind of question of that nature, the first thing that will happen is, if she's underage, I will call the police. I don't think you can talk to a minor that way or ask those kinds of questions, even if the minor agrees to answering them.
I'm not above punching someone's teeth in, either.
