by Bonnie_Clyde 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
I remember as recently as about 5-10 years ago, they would say 'so-and-so has been disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming of a Christian' or 'so-and-so has disassociated himself from the Christian congregation and no longer wishes to be recognized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.'
Of course, the comment about 'conduct unbecoming of a Christian' would always get the gossipy people talking. It always made people assume the worst (i.e. adultery, fornication, etc.).
*** w54 10/1 pp. 595-596 par. 17 Christians Live the Truth ***If announcements are made to congregations concerning someone who refuses to pay debts or who is going around taking money or other things from individuals in the congregation, the congregation servant should be the one to make the announcement and he should be careful to avoid wording something in a slanderous way but merely report the facts as they exist or that a person has been disfellowshiped for dishonesty or fraud. Then those who are in the congregation can be aware of what is going on and will be able to protect their own interests and the interests of their brothers. "His wickedness shall be openly showed before the assembly." (Prov. 26:26, 18, 19, AS) If one is disfellowshiped and later makes restoration of what is due, he may be reinstated because he has shown a right heart by a right course of action. Reinstatement will be at the discretion of the committee. This is one good reason for not taking a brother into court to settle a debt.
I remember when they announced disfellowshippings in other local congregations too.
*** w63 7/1 p. 412 What Disfellowshiping Means ***Neither can he feel that by moving to another congregation he will be freed from the sanctions placed upon him. The local congregation will be notified and public announcement made of his disfellowshiping for the protection of the congregation there.
Only now they make sure everyone knows why they made that announcement a couple of weeks later when they give the local needs part and blatantly tell all but the tiniest details.
Well, I don't ever remember a follow-up talk concerning pedophiles, though.
Choosing Life:
they make sure everyone knows why they made that announcement a couple of weeks later when they give the local needs part and blatantly tell all but the tiniest details.
I heard through your circuit grapevine that they all but named the brother who was D/F for apostasy in the local needs talk on apostasy...He had the talk the same night as the announcement....with the newly D/F brother sitting there(although the D/F brother DID send a letter to everyone, but that doesnt excuse the PO). I verified this story with one of your local elders... he told me he was shocked and had no idea that the PO was going to go into such detail..and the PO did not even wait a couple of weeks. . I wonder what that D/F brother and his wife thought of that! CO did nothing about it, even though he was told about it....hmmmm...maybe because your PO goes golfing with the CO and kisses his.... 
CL, I think that your congo goes overboard more so than most in their local yokel needs talks. I know your PO. He is a young buck who is inexperienced, is controlled by his father the secretary, and talks too much -- both on and off the platform. If it is said to either of those two elders, it is said to their wives....(You know what is said in your circuit about your congo dont you?... 3 Methods Of Communication in XXXXX congo: "Telephone, Telegraph, Tele***name of POs family***" ) Be glad you dont go anymore.
In my past experience as an elder, local needs talks are either some lame ministry/experiences part just to fill the time, or they abuse the local needs part....as in the above story...and hammer people to the point of all but naming names..but leaving NO doubt as to who is being spoken of.. I have seen this in every congo I have been associated with except my current one...and the only reason I havent seen it there is because I dont usually go on Service Sales Meeting night.
Really disgusting...and I am saddened that I ever served on those Judicial Committees Kangaroo Courts, Have I said Im sorry enough yet?
SnakesInTheTower (of the "sick to my stomach over JCs" Sheep Class)
The first time I heard of someone getting DFd, the offense was included in the announcement.
Later, another young person was announced as DFd "for conduct unbecoming a Christian" - which soon became apparent when she started wearing maternity clothes to the KH.
The first time I recall hearing an announcement regarding disassociation, it was not even someone from my congregation, but an unbaptized minor who had done some volunteer work for the army cadets, again "conduct unbecoming a Christian".
The announcement changed in the mid-80s, if I remember correctly, following the Ray Franz fiasco at Bethel. It seems to me that the WTS was becoming more concerned about what was going on between a person's ears in terms of what they believed rather than just "conduct". Ray Franz's conduct was still in keeping with the moral principles that he learned as a JW - it was his beliefs that evolved. That is also the reasoning behind the change in the baptismal questions, which currently include a kind of pledge of allegiance to the WTS, and acknowledges the WTS (aka "God's Spirit Directed Organization") as the source of salvation rather than God or Jesus.
Now they just announce that So-and-so is "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". You don't know if they are DFd or DAd. It ramps up the level of paranoia, and it basically gives no quarter to someone who has conscientious objections to WTS policies. I fully anticipate that the literature will soon make no distinction between disfellowshipping and disassociation - when you knowingly engage in conduct that is contrary to WTS beliefs, you will be regarded as having disassociated yourself by your actions. This will effectively do away with judicial committees - and JWs will just need to make a report to the local elders and have the action corroborated by another person or a couple of elders going on a fishing expedition, to make the disassociation a fait accomplit.
I don't ever remember the announcements.
But i do recall that there would be a few talks about certain subject and you would then clue the peices together.
Helen
*wonder how her DF announcemence was worded*
From the seventies I remember only, s/b doe disfellowshiped for conduct not becoming a christian, that could include, adultry, fornication, smoking, farting during prayer.
But disassociation would be volintry and usually means they finally found out that the society was a sham, or they couldn't live by their rules.
Yep, that's the way I see it too. Only now they make sure everyone knows why they made that announcement a couple of weeks later when they give the local needs part and blatantly tell all but the tiniest details.
Hi Choosing Life - my son was not DF'd, but he and his girlfriend were publicly reproved back in 1990. I didn't know any details until I heard them from the platform two weeks later. Clyde was already on the fringe at the time, but he pretty much stopped attending meetings then. I hung in there (for the sake of my children), but my field service hours went way down after that. My son actually stroked his girlfiend's breast while they were "alone." Not good for young people to be alone!
Yes, I've heard lots of other local needs talks giving minute details of the indiscretions that were committed. I rather think the elder who gave those talks rather enjoyed it.
Eclipse said:
I'm not old enough to remember when it was announced that way...but, if that is the case, then that means, that people were DF'd based on what they did, Not based on repentance.
That's exactly how it used to be. Clyde used to serve on committees back in the early 60's. He was only involved in one disfellowshipping case, but the only criteria was that fornication had actually been committed. Repentence had nothing to do with it. Back then, fornication was actually having sexual relations--it did not involve petting, stroking, or anything but penetration.
In the 1950's I remember they used to say what they were disfellowshipped for, whether it be fornication, stealing, etc. Then it was disfellowshipped for "loose conduct", then "conduct not becoming a Christian." Then it was simply "disfellowshipped" or "disassociated." Now its "Brother/Sister *** is not longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Does anyone else remember it that way?
Yup...and there was a time you could send in a da letter and not be shunned...
I remember both of these. I didn't start going to the KH until 1967. So if it happened in the 50's, the elders in my congregation must not have been reading the letters from the Society. I remember some people used to cry after the announcement was read. I also remember when they stopped mentioning the reason behind the DF, and that led to a lot of rumor and speculation.
