Hello all, just had an interesting conversation with a P.O. elder and his wife who were leaving me a incognito invitation to the "Follow the Christ" convention.I declined the invitation, but told them I had an associated press article I'd like to leave with them about molestation settlements jw's made outside of court. I asked if they were aware of this settlement. As I handed him the ap article and looked at the expression on his wife and his face I could tell they were'nt aware of this particular settlement. The elder said," We are aware of child molesatation occurences happening in the organization and we take care of the perpetrators" . I was lapping my chops . I told him," Are you aware that many victims have been told they or their families were not allowed to go public with this to the authorities, or they'd be kicked out of the church?" He said," That's not the directive we've had from the organization. I asked," What is your directive, then?" He said," We tell people it's up to their conscience if they go to the authorities for help. But we don't stop them from going." I said," Wouldn't justice cry out for you as an elder to go to the authorities since it's felony child abuse? Doesn't Romans 13:1 say to be in subjection to the authorities as long as it does not go against what your God tells you? Do you think God wants justice done for these child abuse victims, and the authorities allowed to mete out justice on the perpetrators ? " The elder said," I would probably go to the authorities if I knew it wouldn't endanger the victims". I asked, "Probably? No probably about it. Justice and what's right should dictate you going to the authorities!!"Then he said,"Well there might be an isolated incident where people have been told not to go to authorities". I interuppted and said," It's not isolated. This has happened hundreds of times in the United States alone." Then I asked," Did you see the Dateline program of 5 years ago dealing with what one elder found out in your church? Referring to Bill Bowen, of course." He said, "He had heard of the incident and that Dateline had put out a program on it. He said,'Datelines version of what happened". I said it was the truth.I told him it took more courage for Bill Bowen to come out with that information and risk being kicked out after 40 years of service to expose this molestation crisis than burying his head in the sand and not dealing with it. The elders wife shook her head in agreement. I told them the difference in their organization is they try to hide this information from it's members because you're concerned about outward appearances, not really dealing with the problems. Thus the 16 molestation settlements out of court. I contrasted it with what the Catholics did, coming out about it. The elders wife said," We appreciate how respectful you are in bringing this out to us. we see you are concerned that it doesn't get swept under the rug! I had molestations occur in my family so I'm aware of this problem." I asked the elder,"Do you know if the organization is going to print something in your Watchtower informing your members of what's taken place, so they can know the truth?" He said, "I can't speak for the organization. I don't know." Then I proceeded to tell them I had family who are witnesses and they didn't know about it either. I said, 'That's why education and informing oneself is so important, to protect yourself, so the information is not controlled which you recieve." I told them that's why I don't agree with the org. because they control what you do to be classified a good person. I told them I send my son to college but they don't acknowledge that as important. I told them,"If you do things important the chuch considers important then you are looked at as a good person. If you get your 10 hours or 20 hours a month in, you're considered "good". I framed my hands around them as if looking in a camera saying, "You are a "good" witness couple because you do the things your church tells you, but there are just as many good people outside your church doing alot of good things for people also. With this I had took 30 minutes of their time and their car group came to pick them up. I can tell I gave the elders wife something to think about. But that p.o. was one uninformed drone. He looked to be all of maybe 28 to 30.Hope they share the information with their car group, but Oh!, I doubt it you know, damage control. Anyway let me know what you all think? Peace to you all, Mr. Flipper
Just Witnessed at my Door to an Elder and his Wife About Child Molestation
by flipper 43 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
-
Arthur
It's sad. His rote responses were exactly the kinds of responses that I would have provided when I was a Witness. Reading this thread reminded me of myself - five years ago.
While active, I began to feel deeply disturbed by the way that I (as well as all JWs) were expected to uphold the loftly image of the organization no matter what. There were many instances where I knew that householders had very legitimate disagreements with us - that these people were not wicked or goat-like for disagreeing with us; but I could never acknowledge those observations to be valid. To do so, would mean that I was "weak in the truth". I began to see that what I was doing was merely performing a rhetorical tap-dance at the doors in the efforts of being a faithful organizational apologist.
I see so many people who truly believe that they are Witnesses of Jehovah and Jesus; but this is not so. In reality, they are Witnesses of the Watchtower Bible, and Tract Society.
-
lavendar
I think you did GREAT, flipper! You certainly gave them food for thought. And it might be the beginnings of doubt in their minds about the organization. Who knows.....perhaps they were already harboring doubts, and you just added some more.
Good for you!
Lavendar
-
quietlyleaving
well done flipper. Sounds like you kept your cool too - not sure I'd be able to.
-
MidwichCuckoo
I think you did a marvelous job Flipper. Well done.
-
eclipse
excellent rebuttal Sir flipper!
-
sammielee24
Good job flipper! I brought up the settlements very kindly and discreetly with both my mother and Elder brother...my brother said they had heard 'something' then changed the subject and my mother wrote me a note that said it's obvious that I was apostate. At that point I gave up! sammieswife.
-
buffalosrfree
where can one get a copy of the associated press release of the settlements??? would love to have it, to provide ammunition for my contrariness...
-
B_Deserter
Anyone have a link to that Dateline special? It came on when I was a witness so we avoided watching it in my family. I'd really like to see it now.
-
Arthur
Anyone have a link to that Dateline special? It came on when I was a witness so we avoided watching it in my family. I'd really like to see it now.
You can find links to this, as well as other documentaries at http://silentlambs.org