Just Witnessed at my Door to an Elder and his Wife About Child Molestation (page 3)

flipper

Hello again folks. Just a response to those that wrote some stuff. Thanks again for your support guys. Arthur- It is true the witnesses all give canned responses and rhetorical answers to things they feel uncomfortable with. It's not very deep. Pretty shallow actually. Don't blame yourself for how you responded when a witness. Arthur we were all blinded by their communication styles. Nathan natas- I hope the elders wife rebels against his "alleged" authority. Johnny Cip- It did feel "righteous" to turn the tables on them and make em' listen to me for awhile. 1000 molested kids can't all be making it up!! Real isolated incidents, huh? Moshe- I wonder if the wife will question her elder husband in private, you know, so as not to embarrass him??LOL HorribleLife- Yes, it seemed that the elders wife was listening intently and more sympathetic to the problem of molestation than the damage control rhetoric the elder husband was spewing out to make excuses. Peace to you all, invite all your thoughts

Guest with Questions

You did a great job showing witnesses that x-witnesses (and Christians) can be very sincere and that many still read their bible, are informed, and are morally indignant when someone does something as despicable as child molestation. It used to upset me that the witnesses ignorantly or arrogantly believe that only they study and read the bible and try to do God’s will. I truly hope that this couple will think about what you said. I wish more people would speak out but I think that many don’t care or might not know enough to speak to them. I do have my reservations, but you never know, you may have planted a seed of doubt and if more people speak to them at the door, the more they may question the Org.

I had a young man with his 5 yr old daughter come to my door Sunday afternoon to invite me to the DC but I declined. We had a very long chat. Initially when I noticed a few of them walking down my street with young children, I was surprised that I was nervous. I had no intention of talking to him as I truly thought at the time I had nothing to say to him. In the end a lot was covered.

I mentioned the child molestation settlements in California and about Silent Lambs.

I asked who his Mediator was. He said the bible stated that it was Jesus but I had to tell him that it was not what the Org’s literature said, that Jesus was Mediator only for the 144,000, which surprised him. He asked who then was the Mediator for the Great Crowd and I told him that it was the Org. or GB.

I mentioned that the Org was a member of the UN during the 90's for about 10 yrs(?) which also surprised him, that Independent thinking was not allowed, about shunning. I mentioned Mouthy, but not by name; that I found it horrible that a person was disfellowshipped because she didn’t believe that Jesus came in 1914 and was then shunned by her daughter. He didn’t think that was right. I said a lot of families were torn apart.

I mentioned the NWT, asking if he knew who the translators were and why they weren’t mentioned. He, as usual, mentioned humility. I felt that if an accredited scholar showed his name it gave the reader confidence that they were reading a valid translation, that Fred Franz was the only one that knew a bit of Hebrew. Told him to look up translators of NWT on Internet but I doubt he will.

Mentioned 1975- that the Org did state in their literature that the end would most likely come in the fall of 1975-that it wasn’t just eager witnesses wanting the end. That the bible states if anyone prophesies in God’s name that something will happen and it doesn’t come true, he is a false prophet.

I told him that I wasn’t a tool of the devil, that I was a Christian, that it wasn’t to please me to seek the truth, but to do it for himself - do it for him and his children. I also asked if he felt that all clergy were of the devil and would be destroyed but he didn’t have an answer. I also told him to be careful; that if he questioned the Org that he could be disfellowshipped. He seemed to think that there shouldn’t be any problem questioning; to seek the truth.

His last sentence was that it did mention in the bible that Jesus was the Archangel. I asked him where, because I know that this isn’t mentioned anywhere in the bible. He then left.

In the end, because of what I experienced, and also Flipper, I wonder if the Org, knowing that more people outside of the org may becoming more informed, that it may be their tactic to allow people at the door to speak more freely, so that they would feel that the witnesses were more approachable, that they are becoming more mainstream. He seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say. I did have control of the conversation and that puzzled me, he didn’t retaliate. He just let me talk. I am a skeptic, but I do hope that I may have planted a seed of doubt.

I have considered keeping information handy by my front door in case someone comes to my door again. (documents of Child Abuse Cases, NGO, Silent Lambs, etc) The only thing I’m afraid of is that it will get back to my mother’s husband. I mentioned to this young man that I knew about the networking between all the congregations. One couple earlier this summer recognized me and knew my mother.

Sorry that this post is so long and has grammatical errors. Hope it’s readable.

lonelysheep

Great job!!

I said, 'That's why education and informing oneself is so important, to protect yourself, so the information is not controlled which you recieve."

Some quotes from Albert Einstein:

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.""Information is not knowledge." "The important thing is not to stop questioning."

"The only real valuable thing is intuition."

Jim_TX

I think that you did a GREAT job!

If I read it correctly, the elder's wife said that she had been molested - or knew of someone who had? If so, then she is keen on listening, and will no doubt think more on this at a later time.

Again - GREAT work!

'reverse witnessing'. That's what it's called.

Regards,

Jim TX

Mum

Very good work, Mr. F.

As you know, I know people in your area who are not JW's. I had a conversation once with a man who owns a glass installation business on Gold Flat Road (I think). He said the JW's were coming to see his wife for a while. But he chased them away because he knew of JW's who would not speak to people (DF'd JW's) he knew to be decent, law-abiding citizens because of some stupid Watchtower legalism. He could not stomach it.

Keep getting the word out, folks. It's working.

Regards,

SandraC

Rebirth

Yeah, it simply amazes me that JWs can read about or see all of this in the news and turn a blind eye to it. HELLO!!! What part of "you will know my disciples by the love amongst themselves" does covering over childhood abuse fall under?

Vernon Williams

Flip,

Well done: you made your point and held their attention....good job, bro....

V

sass_my_frass

That was excellent work! You were able to reach the wife because of her experience in her own family, and your chat will have a huge impact on her.

unique1

WOW, I am sure you gave them something to think about.

Hoping4Change

I mentioned the NWT, asking if he knew who the translators were and why they weren’t mentioned. He, as usual, mentioned humility.

I've been a little confused about how they expect this type of reply (the 'humilty' response) to actually hold any water. My response goes a little something like this: when we send our children to school, we expect the teachers who will be teaching our children to be verifiably and accurately trained. So if my child is to take a French or Spanish language class, I have every right to know and be able to call upon the credentials of those who would be teaching my children. I am sure most may not do so, but if we wanted to, we certainly could. It seems to me, the same should hold true for any Bible translator or teacher of the Bible. Humility can/should have nothing to do with telling who a given set of translators were; offering verifiable evidence of the training/credentials of the translators, and showing an interested one that the translators/teachers for a given work and subject area are indeed qualified to to be doing so. Who would send their child to school to learn French or Spanish from someone if the school was unwilling to offer up the evidence of a) who the teacher is (we cant know a teacher's name??) and b) what credentials that teacher has to be teaching the subject matter. When it comes to the Bible I use for study, I wrote a letter to to publishers and received a 2 page response with all the names of the members on the translating committee, a list of all the denominations of those members, and the underlying translation philosophy behind the work. Yes, I still have to put some trust in what I have being told, as I havent gone and looked up or called all the colleges and seminaries these people went to, but at least I know who they are and if I really wanted to, I am confident I could find out the training and what credentials each of those individuals hold. It's hard for me to accept that the WTBTS hides the members of its' translation committee and won't confirm who they are once they are found out (through other sources).

Just Witnessed at my Door to an Elder and his Wife About Child Molestation

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