GB members who would allow pedophiles to freely operate from KH's would not be above some financial hanky-panky. In my opinion some WT money will end up benefiting a few at the top. Judge Rutherford saw no problem with using WT money as his own slush fund.
Is the Watch Tower name going away?
by garybuss 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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garybuss
writetoknow, Thanks for your good comments. If you and journey-onare right about the asset protection angle, then it might be transfer with
intent to defraud, since the Society is aware of other litigation, both current
and pending.
, I favor your take for my pet theory on what's going on.
I think it's a public relations (PR) maneuver.
One of several reasons I think that it is a "PR" move, is the parent
corporation approach the Watch Tower Corporation took to
summer district conventions. The Christian Congregations of
Jehovah's Witnesses sponsored the conventions and then The
Christian Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses solicited
donations at the convention payable to "Watch Tower", the
parent corporation.
I'm not an attorney, but that dual corporation donation soliciting
and collection strategy that is currently being used at the summer
conventions seems like a bad start if the Society intends to bleed
the Watch Tower Corporation. I don't think it can be bled anywhere
near in time to avoid paying judgements for years to come. It's just
too big.
The Society is turning in. By "turning in", I mean that the Society
has gone from Jehovah's Witnesses using the Society's resources
to preach to non-Witnesses, to the Society using the Watch Tower
Corporation's resources to preach TO Jehovah's Witnesses.
Jehovah's Witnesses aren't the messengers any more, they
are now the targets of the preaching. I think this name change
thing is a part of that strategy.
The same is true for the focus for soliciting of money and things
that can be converted into money. We used to solicit donations
from the public by way of a set sales price for literature we
distributed to the public. We paid for the literature at a "wholesale"
rate. For example, the Watchtower and Awake! magazines cost
us publishers 3 cents each and we sold them at the door for a nickle.
Now lengthy articles are written and pleas are made at the
meetings as well as at the conventions to solicit donations
from the Jehovah's Witness people themselves. The
Society tried to get the Witnesses to solicit donations at
the doors in service without suggesting an amount. That
fundraising plan has not had good success in the United
States at all. The attempt to get the Witness solicitors to
discuss the "donation arrangement" in service was not well
received because the Witness people were smart enough
to know it sounded like begging (which it was).
Now the key word is "endure" for the Witness people to digest.
How did we get from "the end is imminent" last year to "endure"
this year? -
lrkr
The change is definate. If you called Bethel a few years ago they would answere the phone "Watchtower, good morning". Now they answer "Jehovah's Witnesses."
2 reasons-
1- the lawyer takeover and creation of separate corporations that OTWO mentioned and
2- the GB was getting all twisted about everybody at Bethel being too corporate. Bethelites saying that they represented the Watchtower Corporation was just one pet pieve.
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moshe
You have made some good points Gary. I had a discussion last year with a JW that while they did not pass a collection plate, the WT Society was just using different methods to raise money. At least at a church it is all above board and financial statements are kept. The church members decide how to spend the money, too. JW's do not like to admit that the WT society is a closed corporation and they have no rights to their KH, if it is has a loan from the Society. As I told one JW, "I don't mind paying for a horse, as long as I get to ride him"
JW's have not a clue how their WT Corporations operate nor do they seem to care.
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garybuss
Hi Moshe,
You have it nailed in my opinion. It's a big corporation doing business with some big bucks.
A few years ago I heard the Society hired some business consultants to analyze and make recommendations. Soon we saw a move to Wallkill, no more subscriptions, once a month Awake! magazine, Bethel layoffs, paperback books, the addition of a public relations department, and stepped up use of the regional building committees.
We have seen the building of the whole Patterson commune AFTER the donation agreement went into use. Now I'm seeing new headquarters/printing plants being constructed in other countries.
Hi lrkr, So what's your take on the name change? Do you think it's public relations or legal? Or a combination? Do you know about the business consultants? -
moshe
It's a big corporation doing business with some big bucks.
Hi- Gary- don't we all know that it is only a Corporation that can have eternal life!
For example, I belong to the UAW and it has evolved into a "UAW Inc., in the last 30 years. The workers now are a tool to obtain dues money to keep the UAW corpration and it's very well paid staff, with double pensions and 100% paid medical care going. The strike fund will never be used as the interest pays for 1/3 of the international's expenses now. Even good ideas can get subverted by the lawyers it seems. The car companies I was told, made a deal back around 1980 to replace the dues of every worker who was eliminated through some sophisticated union company joint programs- a nickel here and there all adds up to millions in the end. The Watchtower Society's lawyers are just like the people who started out serving Howard Hughes and in the end they ended up controlling him and using his mental illness to their financial advantage.
This Watch Tower corp doesn't give a damn about the average JW and the good news of the kingdom. I imagine that their lawyers have a 5 to 10 year plan to turn JW's into a semi- respectable religion that can be milked for generations to come. The title of this years conventions featuring ' The Christ" , reducing Sunday talks to 30 minutes, changing to a public watered down feel-good WT in January are all part of a master plan. The blood transfusion ban will be next- just as soon as they get the WT assets protected and they convince the JW's it was their idea all along, just like the over exuberance of 1975 was the fault of the average JW. They are setting the stage to set up a new GB ( not annointed) and offer nice retirement packages to the old guard which stands in way of progress. I would imagine a million dollars and an oceanfront condo in Miami would induce them to retire early. Stay tuned for the next act of WT inc.
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garybuss
Good comments Moshe,The line of distinction between Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watch Tower Society is disappearing. What was two is becoming one, but it's inverted. That is, the weak subservient division is overlaying the powerful partner.
Now Jehovah's Witnesses run the corporation and the governing body does not. How upside down is that? -
parakeet
The WTS is attempting to retain power without having to take the responsibility for it by making it appear that Jehovah's Witnesses are calling the shots when in reality the WTS is still pulling the strings (excuse the mixed metaphors).
They should all read Shakespeare's "King Lear" to see how well that strategy worked out for him. "Howl," WTS, "Howl, howl, howl, howl!" -
writetoknow
Follow the money trail..................when attorney look to sue they look first and formost - if there is enough money. If the watchtower society is the corporation that is named in the abuse suits then that is where the money will come from.
A corportation is a collective person that exist only on paper even though it has lots of holdings. As long as there is paper work the person or the corporation exist. When suits are leveled it is against that collective person and it holdings. The law does not see colletive person the see the corporation as a person that exist not as a human being but on paper legally.
The individual people running the corporation have a veil of protection against their personal holding becoming part of the lawsuit such as home, land, cars, bank accounts, etc..
Only the holding of that corporation falls within the purveiw of the suit because those funds are on "paper" within the corporation business.
It is not uncommon for corporations to have a number of sister corporations. In other words, to protect their assets and for tax purposes. The cruxs is for the corporation to be legal by law each corporation has to be operated as a seperate business. In other words, transferring funds one from the other or sharing bank accounts proves they are the same not different corporation. Can one corporation barrow money from its sister corporation. Yes, as long as it is a legal transaction as any business can conduct business with another or one person can loan another person money. If the paper work is legal and it is a binding contract and it is accepted and approved by both board of directors and the paper work is there to prove it in court.
If the watch tower society put a new board of directors on the board of another legal corporation and the books are seperate it is legal. If they pump a huge amount of funds into the new corporation from the old the USA attorney would certainly jump on that it would be clear the purpose of the new corporaton is to avoid lawsuits.
If however it was incorporated overseas it would be extremely hard to stop it. As I stated before if the society believes the lawsuit are going to be never ending they must protect some of the assets to continue the corporation. If no further funds come into the Watch Tower corporation and they transact business as usual and slowly the suits and operation drain the Watch Tower corporation funds that ends the suits even with massive judgments against the old Watch Tower corporaton if it has no holdings a person cannot collect.
In other words, you can only get what the asset the corporation has at the time of the lawsuits is won not future business. In other word, the board of directors are not legal bond by law to keep pumping funds into the corporation to pay lawsuits. The courts look at the assets at the time of the suit is won the money that can actually be gotten at the time. If the society was to declare bankruptcy because of the lawsuit that is legal and there is nothing to collect only the money the society had at the time of the bankruptcy was filed.
I doubt the society would file bankruptcy because of public PR. However, to paid the now existing lawsuits out of the old corporation and start a new one. Any furture lawsuits filed would go against the corporation the society was using at the time. And most of them if not all of them would come against the watchtower society. If the watchtower corporation no longer exist or is just a shell in 10-years there is nothing to collect from
I would not be suprize to see the society set up a number of corporations in the next few years. In fact, I know that a person on the GB is not always on the legal board of the corporation and some one may know I don't -- I would not be suprize that the two have been totally seperated and they have some fall guys on the corporate board ?
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ESTEE
I work all week and didn't peek in here till today, so I missed a few comments. I liked this one:
The WTS is attempting to retain power without having to take the responsibility for it by making it appear that Jehovah's Witnesses are calling the shots when in reality the WTS is still pulling the strings (excuse the mixed metaphors).
Anyone remember years ago when the KHs with no mortages were
askedtold to take out mortgages and give the money to "contribute to the advancement of the Kingdom work"? Talk about disempowerment. Many congregations went back into debt to advance the kingdom work, in good faith. Ours was one of the KHs thatvotedsuccumbed to remortgage. The action of creating the illusion that the JWs are calling the shots is just that: An Illusion or appearance that the JWs are calling the shots.So yup, it's PR---corporations use PR to create an illusion. Just like hollywood.
But it's the corporation---that holds the money---who has all the power. Bottom line: the WTS still holds the
cardspower.The local KHs hold the mortgages, in good faith.
IMHO and experience.
ESTEE