Rosalee
:), exactly, I agree. In otherwords the unborn child is valuable :).
JOBLESS COUPLE HAVE 12 KIDS AND GET A $1,000,000 FREE HOME
by Mary 204 Replies latest social current
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Littledreamfaery
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Littledreamfaery
Rosalee
:), exactly, I agree. In otherwords the unborn child is valuable :). -
Open mind
Terry:
WHAT IS YOUR EARLIEST CONSCIOUS MEMORY AS A PERSON?
Uh, being a fairly dim bulb myself, I can't remember anything before age 3.
Is that really where you wanted to set your line of demarcation Terry? Or did I miss something?
Open Mind
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Terry
You definition of life and my definition life seem to differ on this point. There are those who see a fetus as nothing more than a 'clump' of cells, which is the basic point you are putting across. Picking at something as simple as someone saying their opinion on life and abortion. Well life to me starts at the conception of the child, just because the child has no accessable memories of their time in the womb or before a certain age means nothing. As a Psychology graduate I learnt a lot about child psychology, and the fact is children have memorys of before they are born, a day old child can tell the difference between their mothers voice and that of a stranger, this is something they must have learnt in the womb, so really to imply that a fetus is not really alive until it is born is wrong.
With all due respect: balderdash!
I knew you wouldn't/couldn't answer my simple question without muddying the water with silly statements like: "just because a child has no accessable memories of their time in the womb or before a certain age means nothing." Oh? Why? Because it invalidates your argument it means nothing? No, rather it means EVERYTHING! What makes us human, may I ask you?
Is it arms, legs, feet, hands, head? Or, is it what is essentially the only thing about us identifiably human: CONSCIOUSNESS and IDENTITY which, when self-realized, IS OUR MEMORY which is our ACTUAL LIFE!
You are not human until you possess accessible consciousness of identity and that means memory.
When an infant is born it is stimulus-response, stimulus-response, stimulus-response over and over and over until consciousness attaches conceptuality to the stimulus to the point of IDENTITY. A flower follows the path of light without ever crying out: MOTHER! But then, there are people who want flowers to think too!
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But, we aren't entitled to our own set of FACTS!
Your definition of life has no validity unless it corresponds with reality. You can't make an opinion valid just by asserting your right to it.
I'm not jumping on YOU personally. I'm challenging your definitions which have led to your conceptions which give resonance to your emotions.
I once jumped back three feet when I saw a stick that I thought was a snake! My emotional reaction and my frantic leap were the result of misidentification.
So too, you are jumping back and crying "life begins at conception" by pointing to a clump of cells and imagining all the rest.
LET ME TRY to get you to answer my simple question one more time:
WHAT IS YOUR EARLIEST MEMORY OF BEING ALIVE? What age were you when you have accessible, meaningful human consciousness?
This is not a hard question!
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Terry
WHAT IS YOUR EARLIEST CONSCIOUS MEMORY AS A PERSON?
Uh, being a fairly dim bulb myself, I can't remember anything before age 3.
Is that really where you wanted to set your line of demarcation Terry? Or did I miss something?
Open Mind
There is a British expression which says "What is this all in aid of?"
It means, why are we discussing this or why are we doing this if it is without any purpose.
I'm just trying to get people to realize they are the victim of their conceptual fuzziness.
The unwarranted opinion that a fetus is a "child" is fuzzing out what humanity meaningfully is.
What does a little girl have when she is given a doll to play with other than an OBJECT?
Yet, the little girl dresses the OBJECT, talks with the OBJECT, develops a realtionship with the OBJECT and gives the OBJECT a human name!!
Yes! A little girl even learns to LOVE the OBJECT.
Why? Why? Why?
BECUASE the little girl has conceptually made the OBJECT a PERSON!!
The same mental trick is taking place by confusing a clump of cells in the uterus (OBJECT) with an actual PERSON!!
It is the confusion of language, the blurring of concepts, the attachment of emotions to wrongfully mis-identified metaphors which makes this silly issue into a moral nightmare.
THAT IS MY POINT!
You aren't really YOU until you start having meaningful memories of self-identification.
What are you, then?
You are a process of cellular interactions forming conceptual links which--at some point--become HUMAN.
I know people don't like that. But, for heaven's sakes---get over it.
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Brigid
This thread is so interesting. Because everyone EVERYONE has an almost visceral, definite and polarized reaction to this subject. And it all starts with that most controversial subject in the human race: Two people having S-E-X.
For those who are opposed to "supporting" the village children: Why? Is it that they do not come from your immediate gene pool that gives you such a visceral reaction? Can you foresee a utilitarian benefit to producing human beings that may in some way support you when you are too old? (i.e., change your diapers, cook your meals, etc.)? If nothing else, carry on your "tribe"?
For those who want to support people's apparent free-style copulating propogation: Why? Is it because it seems like the warm and fluffly thing to do? Or do you see the above utilitarian purpose in doing so? Do you not want to come across as harsh if you oppose it?
This is so fascinating! We've run the gammet from liberal vs. conservative to a smattering of JW bashing (which in a base level, I found gratifying, I must admit, having known all the stereotypes of JW free loaders mentioned) to abortion and when life is created.
What I find most interesting is what I said above: It all started with 2 people having sex.
Why is this such a hot button for human beings?
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Rosalee
Terry
If a person's recollection of earliest memory is at three years old ... by your standard that child could be done in at two years of age because it isn't a viable human yet.
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nvrgnbk
Well Brigid.
Sex is a hot button for human beings, because hot buttons are part of sex! LMAO!
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IP_SEC
Can you foresee a utilitarian benefit to producing human beings that may in some way support you when you are too old? (i.e., change your diapers, cook your meals, etc.)? If nothing else, carry on your "tribe"?
These kids arent going to be able to support even themselves, how do you expect them to support their parents?
If nothing else, carry on your "tribe"?
Bullshyte
I didnt have kids when I was younger because I would not have been able to support them without 'help' from your paycheck frawgie. Now I would be able to support them without taking money from you and your 'tribe'.
There's no need to have 12 kids to carry on a family name esp if there is no money to take care of 12 kids.
Personal responsibility. What if these people had no kids but had lived way outside their means and got into deep debt? Would you be as willing to 'help' them? Well the fact is that by having 12 f*cking kids they have been living WAY outside their means.
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