If death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

by Orgull 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sinis

  As far as why do animals die.... maybe it had something to do with that naughty SNAKE in the garden (bad snake, bad... bad... bad)

  Whats even more interesting... is that the serpent is the symbol for Enki, also shown as the rod of Asclepius (Greek) and associated with medicine (Asclepius's son was the Greek god Apollo, a practitioner of medicine). Funny how the "serpent" ie Satan was made out to be the bad guy (from the Jewish standpoint - after all you don't want to piss off his younger brother Jehovah), when in fact he may have tried to save man, and been the originator of men and life (health, medicine, etc.).

  Sounds like a smear campaign to me...
• 

  erandir

  Glad to have you here and see you bask in the light of reality and mental clarity.

  nvr--That's preposterous. Don't you know we are in darkness and God has blinded our eyes? I read it in a watchtower once, so it must be true. They kept going on and on about how "well-fed" those in the "truth" were and how everyone else is starving.

  Well, they got most of it right, anyway. They just had a couple details reversed.
• 

  truthsearcher

  Well, I know that around here where I live, animals die because they absolutely refuse to look both ways before crossing the street...
• 

  eclipse

  Whats even more interesting... is that the serpent is the symbol for Enki, also shown as the rod of Asclepius (Greek) and associated with medicine (Asclepius's son was the Greek god Apollo, a practitioner of medicine). Funny how the "serpent" ie Satan was made out to be the bad guy (from the Jewish standpoint - after all you don't want to piss off his younger brother Jehovah), when in fact he may have tried to save man, and been the originator of men and life (health, medicine, etc.).

  Sinis,

  That made me recall the account of when Moses was instructed to build a large copper serpent to be wrapped around a pole so that the bitten Isrealites could look at it and live.

  That account always had me puzzled as that is clearly idol worship...and the snake represents satan....It's all wonderfully interesting!!

  By the way, I am in agreement with the story that satan was only trying to free mankind. He showed them the tree of knowledge..in my books, that makes satan the good guy.

  ok satan haters, feel free to hiss and boo at me...
• 

  truthsearcher

  But seriously, I believe that the animals did not die before Adam sinned. I just can't see Adam and Eve crying their eyes out because their favourite_____________________ died, and still considering their garden to be a paradise. Also, why would God have said that His creation was very good if they were dying? I believe that with their sin, all of creation was cursed as well, and so animals came under that curse, resulting in their eventual death. Check Genesis 3 and

  Romans 8 "The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. "

  Also Hebrews 1:11 tells that the world is decaying, and so this also includes everything in it, such as animals.

  That's my view, anyway.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Death is natural. Sin is natural. More life is a gift.

  That gift doesn't come from sinlessness (like JWs try to teach about Adam and Eve). It doesn't come from works (like JWs teach and the Pharisees taught). It comes from being declared righteous by faith and grace (i.e. "undeserved kindness"). (Romans 5:15-21; 6:21-23; 5:1, 2; 11:5, 6)

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  sinis

  Death is natural. Sin is natural. More life is a gift.

  That gift doesn't come from sinlessness (like JWs try to teach about Adam and Eve). It doesn't come from works (like JWs teach and the Pharisees taught). It comes from being declared righteous by faith and grace (i.e. "undeserved kindness"). (Romans 5:15-21; 6:21-23; 5:1, 2; 11:5, 6)

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul

  I understand what you are saying but isn't kind of funny that Pauline gospels were more than likely written 3 centuries after the fact? Why do we as a society shit can the earliest known writtings, either Sumer, Babylonian, what have you, and readily embrace questionable works, from a questionable character, and written milleniums after the fact?

  Basically, why not delve into other cultures and beliefs, older in time, that offer more plausible explanations. Not some Utopian, abstract belief system?
• 

  Rethinking

  This comment is a little off topic, but I'd just like to say that, although I don't post much, I do read this forum quite often. It amazes me how a lot of the things I read on here make sense!

  I still need to do a lot of research on a few things. Now, I'll add to my list to look for information on the two (E) brothers and, yes, why did Moses tell the people to look at the copper snake AND, if everything that was created was considered "good"..., I could go on.

  My eyes are truly opening and so is my mind!! Great question, by the way.
• 

  slimboyfat

  The animals were under Adam's dominion, they suffered too after the fall.

  Snakes used to have legs and eat grass.

  Slim
• 

  changeling

  Because if they didn't we'd be overrun by animals.

  changeling