by kwr 85 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Mariana,
imho ... hs ... oh forget it. I was going to give you a put down like I did before but likely your ego couldn't take it at your age ... Rose
lol....when you develop an intellect that stretches beyond the depth of the AWAKE! magazine you might stand a chance but then as you know, I will be dead by then and no doubt you will be too. ;)
HS
Stench ... I mean Trench ... I see being 'away' hasn't deepened your intellect. I guess you would consider the MT dense ... lol.
WTWizard ... if you read the initial post here you will see the young man was df'd for relations with a person of the oposite sex before marriage.
Now how do yo wrap your reasoning around that ... likely that the experience drove him to drink but only because of his terrible witness upbringing ... there I've helped you out tremendously.
Rose
Rosalee, I'm glad you weighed in on this.
People, cut Rosalee some slack (lol)! I think she comes here because she's STARVING for some INTELLECTUAL banter. Lord knows she can't get it with her WTS cronies and we always fall into her trap. She gets entertained for a little while, and her brain gets a little boost, and then she can go back to the mind-numbing endeavors of the WTS all refreshed and rejuvenated from her short visits here.
I can speak to this topic personally. My brother, at the young age of 17 had sexual relations with his girlfriend. Both were baptised witnesses. He was disfellowshipped. A highly intelligent honor student, his disfellowshipping sent him into a down spin he never recovered from. At that young age, what he needed was his friends and family to surround him with a safety net and encourage and support his effort to get back on track. But, instead, what he got was shunning. Being raised a witness, he was socially inept at making friends outside the borg. He graduated with honors, but my JW father didn't even attend his graduation! The pain and humiliation he suffered scarred him to the bone. He struggled to get on some kind of footing, but succumbed to his lonliness and rejection. I cry to this very day because I watched him sink deeper and deeper into alcoholism as his long-time friends abandoned him at a time in his life when he was most vulnerable and needed their help.
It's right. We are all responsible for the choices we make. But the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses perpetrates the most heinous acts with its practice of shunning. Disfellowship wrongdoers....okay. Take away their right to be called a JW, but don't tell their long-time friends and family to treat them like they are invisible. Don't jerk their LIFE our from under them at such a tender age. This does contribute to a young person's tailspin into the hell of dissipation.
If I knew how, I would hold the entire evil empire of the WTB&TS liable for crimes against humanity. They are despicable and the epitomy of what evil is. What makes it so utterly satanic is they do it in the name of God! Talk about wolves in sheep's clothing! You have to be a total idiot not to SEE this.
Rosalee,
Stench ... I mean Trench ... I see being 'away' hasn't deepened your intellect. I guess you would consider the MT dense ... lol.
W - Logical, coherent development.
W - Trench stress and modulation.
The Mariana Trench is not the ocean silly willy, it is the mountainous terrain of dense material beneath the water. That is why I consider the MT dense. See, I can play 'Watching The World' too. ;)
HS
Rosalee, I agree that the father who shunned should not be locked up. This was a gross overstatement based on emotion, not logic. But do you seriously believe that this man's upbringing and personal experiences, which happened to be in large part with the JWs, in no way contributed to his alcoholism? Yes, there are other reasons people start drinking, but it doesn't make the argument any less credible.
keyser,
But do you seriously believe that this man's upbringing and personal experiences, which happened to be in large part with the JWs, in no way contributed to his alcoholism?
I think the point is that it may have, but it also may not have and therefore no person can assume a position on the matter. That people have, is as you note an emotional reaction.
HS
journey-on ... I see this is a subject that is close to you. It is to me too. I understand your thoughts, especially since it involves your brother. Growing up as a JW though, he knew the consequences. At 17 he was fully able to understand the end results and decided to defy the edict.
You and I both know that he could have gone for reinstatement if it bothered him so much. Let's put the onus on the real perpetator. Shunning, most definitely is hard to take ... for anyone ... young or old. It's not like the JWs dreamed it up ... it IS scriptural.
Don't make the mistake of blaming one entity for the wrongs another gets involved in. This sort of reminds me of Adam blaming his eating of the fruit ... because of this woman you gave me. Come on!!! Let's truly take responsibility.
My brother was not raised as a JW but is a raving alcoholic ... how are you going to twist that around to who's to blame. Could just be my brother's fault and choice. I love my brother but see him as making his own choices ... but he will give you umpteen reasons for his failure.
keyser ... as for my thoughts on this ... I think we all make our choices and have to take responsibility for them They say there is a genetic disposition for alcoholism ... so this young man may have been heading that way anyway.
I do not agree that being raised JW or Catholic or Baptist is an excuse for any bad behavour. Get a grip ... everyone ... let's all own up to our responsibilities ... quit blaming someone else!
Yes, Rosalee. It is close to me. This event is one of the main reasons I refused to raise my children in this cult.
Growing up as a JW though, he knew the consequences.
This is true. But NO MAN IS AN ISLAND. People need other people when they are going through something traumatic. He needed assistance and encouragement, not shunning.
it IS scriptural
I don't believe it is. I have read the scriptures over and over that JWs use to validate this practice. Taken with the rest of the Bible and in context with the rest of those chapters, I could never interpret them that way.
Let's truly take responsibility
I agree. We should all take responsiblity for ourselves. However, a 17-year old, although old enough to know better, lacks experience and self-control and needs the support and encouragement from others or he can so very easily slip through the cracks.
You're right. He may have turned out to be an alcoholic anyway. But why make it easy by jerking the safety net of family and friends out from under him. IMO it's about REAL LOVE and compassion.
jouney-on ... I do not mean to belabour this but ... since your brother was df'd , I sumise that he was not repentant. If he was he would have been reproved and thus not lose any of the fellowship he so desperatly needed. Am I right? If I am ... he jerked the safety net out himself ... right?
