How Long???

by Xena 38 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LittleToe

  Xena:
  Sorry I haven't replied earlier, my dear, I didn't see this thread until this morning.

  The source that the elders should use is:

  The "Pay Attention" book - UNIT 5(a) pages 99, 100 on the subheading
  "Baptized persons who have not associated for some time."
  You can get to an online copy of this through links on WatchtowerObserver.

  Basically it makes it a judgement call by the local elders.
  The phrase "some time" has been interpretted in a "Question from Readers" on another subject as at least two years.
  The elders have the final say on interpretting the phrase, however, as well as whether or not to pursue (based on the questions in that section).
  Be aware that some elders will ignore this section completely and pursue anyway, if it suits their brand of pedantry.

  Hillary:
  I didn't know about the unwritten five-year thing. That's interesting. So many things are "unwritten" that it makes for great latitude in so-called justice.

  LT
• 

  LittleToe

  Something else has just crossed my mind, in reference to the above-mentioned section.

  If you are asked "would you sit with a JC, if one was formed" you should be safe(ish) answering "No".
  It would pay to qualify it by asking if one has been formed.
  By doing so you acknowledge that you don't "admit accountability to the congregation", which is one of the questions.

  If, on the other hand a JC has been formed, saying "No" would get you DF'ed without being seen.

  Of course, if they can't contact you they are on a very sticky wicket doing anything at all, since they can't determine wrongdoing/accountability/repentance...
  I think we know of plenty of cases where all of the foregoing has been ignored completely, however, and people have been DF'ed anyway.
  Kinda tricky, isn't it.

  LT
• 

  thinkers wife

  Xena,
  So very sad isn't it. I still get angry sometimes when I feel as if I have been put in a position once again, where they are totally in control, and I have no choices. i.e. Recently an active witness out in field service was making very slanderous and terrible accusations about my personal life to a young woman that I studied with years ago who never got baptized and couldn't be less interested in being involved with the religion.
  I da'ed myself in June of 2000. I felt the noose tightening around my neck because I was living with Thinker although maintaining my apartment, apparently some well meaning witnesses noticed things were disappearing from my apartment and the rumors were spreading fast that I had moved. I had already distanced myself from the org. for about a year prior to this but still had some contact. I knew I no long wanted to be a JW but had not taken official action because of my family and few friends. Needless to say, the decision to da myself was a difficult one and very emotionally stressful. I have no children so my circumstances are somewhat different. But in the year or so that has ensued surprisingly, my parents would talk to me if I called. But after months of regularly calling them, my mom made it clear that my life was of no interest to her. For me that was the last straw. I haven't spoken to them since early July. To be honest I haven't even wanted to. Though I love them deeply I see no point in continuing to have a "fake" relationship.
  As the months go by I believe your choices will become more clear to you. And you will work your way through all the feelings and ingrained attitudes, and then you will have a better idea of how YOU feel and what WORKS for you and yours.
  Best of luck, it is a terrible dilemma at best.
  TW
• 

  Xena

  When some of my family came to visit them, they invited my daughter to come over, but I was definately not welcome. That hurt her to not have me be be part of the fun.....if you can call it that.... but I dropped her off to visit, hiding my hurt from her.

  Wow DoubleDee almost exactly the same thing happened when my sister came to visit from Virginia. Hurts doesn't it?

  Both my parents died 3 years ago so I think that is why is has been so hard for me to cut the ties with the family I have left....but I think the time is getting closer and closer when I say screw them I am living my life the way I want to!

  Little thanks for the "technical" info! I was wondering where our "elders" were on this That information is very helpful!

  Thanks again for everyone's help!
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Xena: Excellent post about a serious issue. Essentially, the Watch Tower religion is a Prison organization, that holds its members and ex-members captive. There are several layers:

  1. Members who never get the truth, and don't know to leave.
  2. Members who see through the organization, but can't leave lest they incur shunning.
  3. Ex-Members who have family still associating, but who are not free to enjoy living.
  4. Ex-Members who spend the rest of their lives trying to figure out what happened, and why they let themselves lose everything.

  In my own case, I was able to get my whole family out, my son-in-law, and a few others. So, the pain of loss is at least confined to the loss of a few friends inside the organization. While a JW, I managed to live enough of life that I don't have as many regrets as I could have had, but there are a few things I could of and woujld have done much differently.

  Now, as I see it: to continue to be held prisoner is a matter of choice, once a person has realized that the organization is false. The choice is often hard because it means losing family who will shun us if we do things like celebrating Christmas.

  It took me over two years before I could have a Christmas Tree in my house, next door to a JW. But, I had my family out, so it was easier, but still hard. Had my family been in, I am not sure what choice I would have made.

  I have now been out 9 1/2 years (formally DA'd 6 year ago) and I can say that I have no concerns remaining. It is truly over with the JW world. I have felt this sense of full freedom since I was formally DA'd. So, it does not take all that long - perhaps 3 years.

  Still a Prisoner? Some strongly feel that remaining on ex-JW forums and constantly hammering at this is still a form of being a prisoner. I don't agree. It is somewhat addictive at times - especially when a hot topic like the UN comes along, or the NBC Dateline story that will be airing in the not too distant future - but I do it because I have several things going on:

  1. I love helping new ex-JWs find some bearings in their life. Not to make the choices I made necessaruly, but to help them discover the full enjoyment of searching out their own hearts and finding their own way and making their own truly free choices.

  2. I hope to find some friends who have left the organization so that I can resume our relationship. I have run into some ex-JW relatives of friends, so I am closer.

  3. Build and maintain some friends I have made since leaving the organizaton.

  4. Help in whatever ways I can to expose the Watchtower. The Pedophile - Datleine issue is one area I have made contribution. I also posted my Justice Serice of various Judicial Committee cases so that many ex-JWs could understand what an incompetant and foolish system the Watch Tower has - and in doing that, help expose "it" for what it is. That "it" is not the truth, but the "lie."

  So, this all does get better as time moves on, and we take steps and make changes in our lives. And we discover how much heavy junk baggage we can shed as we get farther and farther away from the organizations.

  The Toughest Choice: The ex-JWs who still have family that associate with them - but who are still afraid to live life to the full are the ones in the most difficult situation. They are usually not DF'd, and family can still technically associate and usually do. But any mistep can lead to shunning.

  Sometimes this just means making tough choices to either live a restrictive life so to avoid losing love and support of family, and at times, making the tough choice to move on, lose famiy, but have full freedom.

  This is such an important topic, that I am going to make a separate post with some ideas on how to achieve some good results, or at least how and when to move on. Stay tuned. Thanks agin for bringing up such a good issue. - Amazing
• 

  Mum

  When I first became an active JW publisher at age 15, I was the only member of my family who was a JW. One of my cousins later became a JW, but was disfellowshipped fairly soon afterwards.

  I have been out for 22+ years. My mom became a JW after I left them! I thought she didn't believe any of their nonsense from her comments and attitude, so go figure! To her credit, she waited until she had accumulated enough disability and illness so that she would not have to participate much in JW life. My mom is a great self-promoter and has my sister's kids pretty much brainwashed into believing that being a JW is the only way to live. They (the nieces) are pathetic! Both are quite brainy, but their choices would not indicate it! But, then, neither did mine when I was young.

  My best strategy as a "fade-away" rather than a DF or DA is to live some distance away from my very pathological family. They, including my mom, almost beg me to visit them. My daughter and I are the only members of the immediate family (including siblings and nieces) who are not on welfare or disability (for mental health reasons). My daughter, her daughter and I are the only ones who have happy lives, who actually do things because we enjoy them, not to appear live up to some standard arbitrarily set by someone else.

  Ironically, when I was a child, my mother hated me immensely. She criticized me as a "fanatic" when I became a JW and told other family members that I was "swayed by every wind and doctrine." She was embarrassed by me because I have a physical handicap; therefore, she thought I could never get a husband (I've had 2 husbands, both better than the one she had). I, of course, was painfully shy and looked elsewhere for support. My mother told me I was "stand-offish" and "despisable," whereas my sister (now on disability for mental health reasons) was "charismatic, cute, with curly hair, dimples and personality." A few years ago, I started describing her behavior to her and told her to stop it, and her attitude got better towards me.

  I think it was George Burns who said something to the effect, "Everyone needs a close-knit family in another city." Works for me and mine.
• 

  tyydyy

  I just got a phone call from my uncle, who used to be an elder until he decided to have some fun, and he told me that one of the elders in my former cong. called to ask him if he knew where my sister works. (she is a dancer at a gentleman's club, aka stripper) She quit going to meetings about 2 yrs ago and they are still asking questions about her. They have not asked her directly.

  I have only been out for about 1 1\2 yrs but they are still asking questions about me. Again, they have never had the guts to ask me directly. If it weren't for the fact we have family still in the borg we would say "F*** you and get lost". My parents are in thier 60's and my mom has cancer so I would like to be able to communicate with them for the last few yrs of their lives. Christmas is coming up and we do plan to celebrate discreetly. (keep the tree in my office just in case relatives come over).

  Tim B
• 

  slipnslidemaster

  Xena,

  This is much too much an important issue you for you struggle with alone.

  Perhaps over dinner we can talk and later I can show you the love that exists on this board...

  Slipnslidemaster:"It is always the best policy to tell the truth, unless, of course, you are an exceptionally good liar."

  - Jerome K. Jerome
• 

  Eppie

  Hm, I don't know if i have more to add than the others already did, but I do want to tell you my story (in short).

  I am twenty years old, baptised when i was sixteen, and i live at university campus for about 1 1/2 years know. I am doubting about leaving the JW for about 2 1/2 years now. One year ago I stopped attending meetings (except when I was at my parents), and decided to fade away. However, now, I decided to DA myself, which I will do the coming week. My reason? I do not want to live a double life anymore, I want to be able to walk around with my boyfriend (and my cigarette :)) in town, without being afraid. One day I will live together with my boyfriend (I am not planning on marrying for a long time) so I will run into the elders at that point. Why should I live in fear of getting caught for another two years: it would only be because I would be too afraid to DA myself. So I decided to take control and DA myself. Tomorrownight (24th of october) I will talk to my dad and tell him about my decision, and deep down in my heart I hope he will accept it. But if not, it was my decision and I will have pain for a while, but will live a happier life after that.

  That is all I wanted to tell, do with it whatever you like.

  Take care,

  Eppie