Lefty/YK & Any Other JW's - ???

by pettygrudger 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Lefty said:

    "As opposed to the 1st century congregation, modern-day Christians are not privileged with the presence of Jesus' apostles, so as to be able to appeal to them and let them settle any problems that come up. "

    No, you are correct, Lefty.. You don't have the privilege of Jesus' apostles... You have the better priviledge of God himself, after all, you are God's spirit directed organization! Aren't you?

    I guess the Channel of communication between the F&DS and God has a few loose wires..

    I once asked my friend to tell me what is in 'stone' in your organization, and cannot be changed.. What doctrines exist that you know are 100% true.

    He, after much thought, said Jehovah can supply us with "new light" on anything, I guess..

    I then said, hmm, what happens if Jehovah one day says, "Hey, let's all drink this kool-aid together, ok?" (Referring to the cult that killed themselves of course)

    His reply was an angry, "That cannot happen".

    I said, why not, is there anything not cast in "stone" that cannot get re-adjusted..

    He said, no, but that would never happen. Jehovah would never say that!

    I said, so at that point you would know it wasn't from Jehovah, but from mere men giving at best a "bad interpretation" of what Jehovah wants, and at worst, just guessing what Jehovah wants.

    He never did respond to that question, but started to shake instead..

    You want to try that one, Lefty? At what point to do realize that you are following men, and not Jehovah?

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Lefty,

    Welcome to the board, but you are really going to have to do a little better than this:

    Yes, there have indeed been adjustments … and readjustments of some of THOSE adjustments for that matter. Seems silly to some, but not to those who are just as determined as the writers of the publications of the WTS.

    Nuff said.....with logic like this in action imagine the state of the 'New World'. Square wheels, chocolate barbecues and numerous conferences discussing the many uses of 'creative clapping'.

    Best regards - HS

    Folly consists in drawing of false conclusions from just principles, by which it is distinguished from madness, which draws just conclusions from false principles Locke

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman
    The WTS IS concerned with the "truth", otherwise it would take the easy
    way out and salute the flag like most other churches do.

    Lefty, could you please explain how this statement in ANY way proves that the WTBTS has the "truth". From what I understand, truth is that which is not false. Truth is not involved in lies or deceit. Truth is the same, no matter which country you're in. The WTBTS has shown repeatedly that it has different forms of "truth" depending on where it is located and the situation in which it finds itself. Truth to the WTBTS is a very malleable commodity.

    Truth to the brothers in Malawi meant imprisonment and in some cases, death, so that they could maintain their neutrality by not carrying a political party card. Truth in Mexico, on the other hand, meant that officials could be bribed and brothers COULD carry a political party card without repercussions from the FDS....mainly because it was advantageous to the WTBTS to compromise on the neutrality issue for their own, corporate benefit.

    Truth means that "you received free, so you should give free", as far as the literature is concerned. However, this Biblical injunction was never carried out until there was the little issue of tax consequences for selling literature. Interesting, too, is that "giving free" is also not "truth" in any country that has not attempted to tax the sales of literature.

    Such convenient truth, isn't it? The only "unity" that is required of JWs is by the rank and file in that they are not allowed to openly question anything that emanates from Brooklyn. The Society, on the other hand, can have disparate "truths" in many countries, and unity does not seem to be as important to them as the "bottom line".

    BTW, how do you feel about Amway?

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Lefty said:

    The WTS IS concerned with the "truth", otherwise it would take the easy
    way out and salute the flag like most other churches do.

    Romans 13:7 says: (Revised Standard Version)

    Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

    Lefty, do you have any idea as to WHY we salute the flag? I'll give you a clue, we don't idolize it..

    And, for the record, here is the definition of idolatry:

    i·dol·a·try (-dl-tr)
    n. pl. i·dol·a·tries
    1. Worship of idols.
    2. Blind or excessive devotion to something.
    3. Excessive attachment or veneration for anything; respect or love which borders on adoration

    For all the 'sane' people reading this.. I wonder what group comes to mind when you think of definition #2 or #3 above? Could it be.. Naw, it cannot be.. They don't idolize anything, do they... Naw, nah.. Say it ain't so... Errrr.... Does not compute... Danger Will Robinson.. Danger Danger... Errrr.. Maybe they really are being "blinded by the light"...

  • comment
    comment

    Lefty,

    You said:

    You have a lot of fun on this forum, don't you comment. Are you sure that those distrubing sensations that you're having aren't merely the pangs of constipation? Seriously, you haven't any justification for making a statement such as you just did. The WTS IS concerned with the "truth", otherwise it would take the easy way out and salute the flag like most other churches do.

    My response:

    If the WTS was concerned with the truth as its FIRST PRIORITY, individuals within the congregation would feel free to hold and discuss with others their own ideas.

    Imagine a member of the congregation who said in 1980: "The generation referred to in Jesus' in Matthew 24 is not the generation of 1914, but the entire mass of wicked humanity who perceive the sign of Christ's presence but fail to respond appropriately."

    What would have happened to that person if he told others in the congregation about his sincere belief and provided the same "Scriptural support" for the belief that the Society now insists all must accept as of 1995?

    Answer: He would have been disfellowshipped.

    However, if we are to accept the Society's reasoning, that belief was JUST AS TRUE in 1980 as it is today.

    Therefore, the Society *is* more concerned with its enforced "unity" than with truth. I could cite plenty of other examples.

    Your example about the flag falls apart when you consider that the Society doesn't adopt the same hard line toward the wearing of wedding rings, yet another object of pagan origin. The Society has its own selective notion of purity.

    And why are wedding rings acceptable, while flag saluting, birthday parties and mistletoe wreaths are unacceptable? Probably, if you dug deep enough, it's because the wife of some Governing Body member said: "Oh, what a shame it would be if we couldn't wear our pretty wedding rings!"

    You said:

    quote]Meanwhile, when other churches make "adjustments" (what a nice euphemism!), it's an indication that they are part of false religion.[/quote]

    Do YOU even know what you are talking about? Can you site an example to prove it?

    My response:

    Yes, I do. I suggest you read the April 22, 1970 issue of Awake!, starting with the article "Changes that Disturb People." This issue goes on at length about how shocking it is that the Catholic Church has changed its outlook on eating meat on Friday, the worship of saints, clerical celibacy and so on.

    Here are a couple of crucial paragraphs:

    One of the reasons is that people are disturbed by what is happening in their churches. Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement, or even despair, because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Medellín, Colombia, expressed the effect the changes have had on many.

    "Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"

    Good question, O Anonymous Colombian Businessman! Jehovah's Witnesses might well say: "Just ten years ago we Witnesses had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in the notions that the generation of 1914 would not die out before the end of the system of things, that alternative service was unacceptable, that taking hemoglobin was unacceptable, and on and on."

    (And if you want to argue that these beliefs were not so strongly held, why would congregation members be disfellowshipped for not adhering to them, except to maintain that enforced "unity"?)

    In fact, adhering to these beliefs would have a FAR GREATER impact on a Witness's life than the Catholic beliefs I cited above.

    So, when such important beliefs are changed, I ask: "How can I have confidence in anything?"

    The Society is infantile in its unwillingness to accept the same criticism it inflicts upon other religions.

    comment

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    New light, old light, STROBE LIGHT...

    How many examples are there in the Bible where 'old light' became 'new light' became 'old light' AGAIN?

    Since this question can't be answered in any affirmative way, I will simply await the name-calling and the patronizing holier-than-thou, God-is-on-my-side-only, responses JW's are trained from the platform to give and most likely will come.

    Jehovah's Witnesses can't seem to talk any other way.

    The alternative is to admit that they belonged to and SUPPORTED an organization that killed more people than the Branch Davidians and People's Temple.

    No other organization is like this...THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!!

    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Lefty Said:

    No, seriously, I don't think that most of those "members" that you speak of really care, one way or the other. As long as the Preacher keeps comforting his flock with the belief that they're safe and going home to Heaven, they could care less in most cases.

    Comments like these, Lefty, demonstrate your true feelings about people who are not JW. Frankly, I think that comment is disgusting and promotes religious HATRED. It is your sorry attempt to ELEVATE YOURSELF above those who have sincere belief in something different from you. How dare you presume to tell anyone what they care about and what they dont care about? How dare you generalise when you dont even go inside these churches?

    When on the ministry, you must meet those of other religions and your true attitude must shine through. What a "good witness" that would be!

    Sirona

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Sorry all you Lads and Lassies, but there ain't no record in the Scriptures of any "Earthly organisation" for our day. Same goes for the FDS, there is no link ANYWHERE between the FDS parable and the 144,000. Just some tortuous and tenuous connection that is a figment of the WTBTS imagination.

    Forget the Org, forget the FDS, ladeez and gents you have backed a loser!!!

    Englishman.

    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • JT
    JT

    Look forward to your thoughts Lefty

    James

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Lefty probably "left" :-)

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